Garry Jones Question Everything!

Summary:

Garry Jones shares his remarkable story with us! He has overcome many bricks, from almost drowning to a painful divorce. Garry also shared things that he thought were bricks that turned out to be a whisper. Finally, he shares his best advice for getting through any brick. You don’t want to miss it!

Episode Transcription

 

Intro Plays

Ari: welcome to whisper spirits. My name is Ira Sherman. I’m your host I have with me today Gary Jones. Gary is a transformational coach, martial arts master, international speaker and number one best selling author. He worked for 20 years in private industry starting on the shop floor to become a general manager responsible for 1100 staff. It was in this environment that he discovered his passion for developing people helping many attain top level careers worldwide. He also runs a why Thai boxing gym, I’ll pronounce that right, which combines his love of physical fitness with bringing out the very best in his students through his 40 plus years of experience. Gary has a strong belief in achieving measurable results quickly and effectively. His unique experiences in the worlds of business, martial arts, physical and mental health and spiritual development, combined to create positive change in the lives and businesses of his clients. His vision is to have a lasting impact on 300 million people of the world. Wow. To leave a legacy of more smiles in the world. Please help me welcome Gary Jones. Gary, how are you?

 

Garry: Very well. Thank you. And thank you for having me on board. Oh, absolute pleasure.

 

Ari: My pleasure. Really. So people can’t see this. But I can because it’s in print. You’re named Gary is spelled with two R’s. Kind of an odd spelling. Kind of an odd spelling for the name Gary, what’s the story behind that?

 

Garry: That’s a Celtic spelling us the the normal We just want our that’s a shortened version of Gareth. But the carry with two R’s. It means spear in Celtic languages, particularly Welsh. Ah,

 

Ari: okay. We just use the Gary Jr. Why and it doesn’t mean anything. But hey, that’s great. So you are a spear. Wonderful. Now, as you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks, the whispers of those voices telling us what the right thing to do is and they represent the good in life. And the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. God knows. We all get hit with bricks throughout our lives. Some more, some less, some bigger, some smaller, but at the end of the day, we’re all everybody goes through something. Now you seem to have a pretty impressive bio, starting out at the bottom on the shop floor working up, working your way up rising up to a point where you’re sponsible for 1100 employees. That’s got to be major. But life wasn’t always so rosy for you was it? Let’s Let’s start. Let’s start back at the beginning. All right. I think you mentioned to me you were like six years old when you got hit with your first brick.

 

Can you tell us about that? 

 

Garry: Yeah, yeah. Well, recently I got asked that question of what’s something that triggered you what caused you to go down this line of thinking of helping people and, and I, I can remember distinctly being in a school playground. And we all have voices in our head. There’s nothing crazy about having voices in our head. We all have them. But mine were telling me, this is an illusion. And you’re just here to record what’s going on? For a six year old, that’s pretty crazy, I guess ready to say loudly and particularly my, my grandmother was like, you know, sort of very religious. I got dragged off to Baptist Church, the Methodist Church, the Church of England, anything to knock this me because if you sat there saying you’re talking to the gods and what have you, because that’s the way you interpret it. Then we use we’re going to well,

 

Ari: were you like, Were you having like hallucinations, or were you just just hearing voices or just hearing just hearing voices? Uh huh.

 

Garry: And the thing is, then when when that happens, you conditioned out of it, you cease to listen. Then there were there are occasions when I was 15 years old, and then roll in occasions that reoccurred through my life where you accept them and go with them. And then you reject it again as well. Because socially fitting in with the world and what the world expects of you, is not that you’re acting upon voices in your head. It’s just not the right thing to do as far as society understands.

 

Ari: Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah, reminds me of Did you ever see the movie? A Beautiful Mind? Yeah. Russell Crowe. Yeah. So, you know, kind of what her mind although he was he was he besides the voices in his head, he had the hallucinations, you know. So now I’m at age. So that was the age of six, and you’re getting battered around and, you know, trying to figure yourself out, I guess. But things I think get started to straighten out. And you mentioned to me that when you were 17, you were listening to some of those whispers, and you actually avoided being hit with a huge brick. Can you tell us about that?

 

Garry: Yeah, well, at that time, bit of a crazy youth time of my life. I was living in a house with a group of other males. They were all in in a band, in fact, and we wanted this crazy idea we were going to go to the Maldives. Scuba diving. Great, fantastic. Now I’m the one that put up the money, put it on my Visa card, which is okay. But as it happens with people of that age, Everybody pulled out

 

Ari: how many? How many were? How many? Were they there?

 

Were there were four of us going? Okay, and

 

so you got you got stuck with the bill for four people and you’re the only one?

 

Garry: Well, that’s the way I’m viewing it, you know, so the bricks that you’re talking about? I have a I have a thought and a precept that very often those bricks are also gifts to you. And this one in this particular case was to me by the time we the tickets have got the flight on the flight number, but the time where to go there’s just me, so I decide not to go. voice is saying just there’s no point don’t go. And that plane was hijacked. That specific Lane number was hijacked. A lot of hijacks were happening at that period of life. You know, I’m slightly older gentleman. No, not so much now.

 

Ari: When was when

 

nobody really got hurt? Nobody really got hurt. Nobody got you know, but yeah, but didn’t have been a good experience.

 

Ari: You know, getting hijacked is like crazy. What when was that? What year was that? Wow. Do you remember

 

in Celebes? That’d be 83 8309 83

 

Garry: Yeah, what airline was like you don’t mind? If you don’t mind me asking. Do you remember what airline was? Airing? I don’t remember any Air India flight being hijacked. Okay. No, it also reminds me there was a there was an airplane. And I don’t remember I had a friend who was on an airplane that was hijacked in the Middle East. And I forgot what they landed, whether it was it was Lebanon, or Jordan or I forgot what but they were held for, I think a couple of weeks. And until they finally got until they were finally freed. And yeah, he suffered psychological issues, obviously. from that. So you know, I hear so even though you say that, you know, nobody was hurt, thank God. But at the end of the day, psychologically, I guarantee you there were people that were very, very scarred. There must have been must have been alright. But again, you had that whisper saying don’t go don’t go and you didn’t go and you avoided that brick. That’s, you know, that’s it by the way. It’s a wonderful thing, you know? Kinda have to thank God for that one. Now, um, life moves on. But this time you were 19 when you got a major brick, a major brick that hate you? Something to do with a swimming or drowning? I don’t remember you want to tell us about it.

 

What do you get the signs you get the whispers before you do so. My first marriage I’m in my second marriage now but my first marriage that lady and we weren’t married at the time but the lady I ended up marrying was a good deal older than me. So much so that at 19 My I went to school with what would be my step daughter. She’s five years younger than me. No, well, yeah. And my stepson he was would have been seven years younger than me. But at 19 We’re walking along the beach. It’s a quite a notorious area in Wales for some riptides, but it was okay that the undersea was okay. And it was a dead poor points on the beach. That was the Whisper you know pay attention to I very often tell Not to my clients pay attention, more become more consciously aware of those voices and things that are telling you what to do or what not to do. But we ignored it. We were just playing in the waves. And then a big wave came over. Big, big way. Now I’ve previously thought 19 I’d already been in experiences of like, rescuing people, I suppose in water, and all my certificates to do it we all get trained to do in lifesaving, how to put your arm around somebody and pull them away. That’s saffron. That’s the lady’s name that I was with was really in a panic. And when you’re trying to hold somebody that’s in an absolute panic, flailing arms, it’s difficult. Now Anthony, the boy with well, he was he’s a level headed guy and a good swimmer. Although at the time, he was only 15. He still has no problem. You’re all touch the bottom it’s it’s okay. Well, then he couldn’t. And then when I looked around the particular beach we were on from World War Two. There’s what’s called pillboxes. There are by 10 meters by 10 meters concrete block stations that were held machinegun posts, and that looked like a tiny little.on The Horizon thinking. We really have been taken out to see boy a riptide saving one person you can do trying to save two that are panicking and flailing I know. So you have to make some decisions. We are going to drain or do you do the unsinkable? Do you swim away and leave them? I did. I swam away. Now the waves were pretty big at this time. And they were screaming you know, for a long time. I didn’t like anybody say my name. Because of the associations if what happened then? Because then he went quiet. And I don’t hear them screaming my name. We I had to push them away to save me. Because I still had the belief that somehow I could get to shore and get more help. That’s that was what was driving me. But then I got caught in a riptide and I just I was getting taken further out to sea. So then you have to come to another decision. Is this the inevitable and I’d love to start studying chivalry. And there’s a saying in that but you you tackle death you fight death until every last breath. But on that last breath if it’s the inevitable, except it with grace. And I thought that was it. I thought this is it. So just accepted with grace. And I have to admit it was quite a beautiful experience in a way which sounds crazy at first it was horrendous have taken a water and salt water and but once I’d set within it’s fine. But then, then I could see in the right in the distance. Antony getting out on the beach, getting out on the beach.

 

A 15 year old and I thought myself a strong swimmer. So without going too long a length into the story. Somehow I find the strength or maybe the tide changed and helped me at that point. Because I don’t think you can swim against tides either agree or maybe the latter was the reason that we both got out. I ended up with another gentleman going back in swimming back into the sea to get suffering out. She was in a terrible state then you know and nobody really tells you too much details about giving the kiss of life is the amount of buy or you have to fish out the mags and everything really to to rescue them. She spent three days in a hyper thermia bath. She did recover. The strangest thing is really on that night. That night after it had happened. They

 

met limit. Let me stop you for a minute. Let me just stop you for a minute because I’m trying to. I’m trying to understand what’s going on here because I can’t believe what I’m hearing. So if the three of you were in the water, right, it was you saffron and Anthony, right? Yeah, you get pulled out in front with a riptide. Okay, yeah, she’s flailing he’s flailing. You’re still keeping a level head, you realize that if you can evolve

 

you’ve got so much. Not so much to be honest. It’s kind of difficult to

 

Ari:alright, but But I’m saying so you just you make a decision that, you know, if I try and save them, we’re all gonna drown. I’ve got to save myself, you start going back towards shore. Right? And then you get pulled out again. Is that correct?

 

Garry: Yeah, there’s a particular where we were as a place called tower in in Abu Dhabi. So there are two tides that fold into each other and where they fold. This is where it got swept to, then they’re just pulling you back out again.

 

Ari: So then you and then and then you look at the shore and you see Anthony coming out, walking out. Alright, is that at this point? Where is saffron? Uh, you know, you lost sight of her. You don’t know where she is? haven’t got a clue. Yeah, you swim back. You come back to shore, you may able to make it back to shore, you find another guy. And then you go back into the water to try and save saffron, which you ultimately did.

 

Is that is that? Is that what you’re telling me?

 

Yeah. Wow, that

 

Garry: was actually two guys. And they were from Liverpool. So the one ran to get the Coast Guard. Because you remember that time? There were no mobile phones or anything. All right. So he ran to get the Coast Guard. We got up on the sand dunes, we could see her rolling in the sea. He actually said to me that I’m not too good a swimmer. But if we go back in together, do you think we could get it which on, you know, in from a logical reason is stupid to do? That was a silly thing we did in a way. But the result was the right result. It could have gone horribly wrong the other way. You know, and then it could have been him and me and suffering again. Right. But it worked. But it didn’t work out. Again. The belief was there. We could get her out. Oh,

 

man. Okay, so what happened after that? So she was she was in a I would say hypothermia bath.

 

Garry: Yeah. Well, the ambulance managed to get as far as it could to the beach. And her her mother, Anthony. And she went away in the ambulance. So I stayed because I knew the Coast Guard was coming. And the Coast Guard you know, she’d been saved and gone. Your memory can play real tricks. I’m sure. I’m sure you from your own experience already have this, you know, but because there were people on the beach that we were trying to get to help us a note. Nobody would people were looking at us like we’re stupid apart from these two guys from Liverpool. And, but when I remember the Coast Guard, it’s sort of almost like I was alone. No, no, no, I couldn’t have been but as my recollection is I was alone on that beach and just told them she’s she’s safe. She’s fine. She’s gone. And when the when they left, I just wanted to go back into the sea. That experience had been so beautiful. which just sounds crazy isn’t it sounds absolutely crazy to say it was so beautiful. Not the drowning the pot on past that I’ve just letting go and surrendering was was amazing. And and maybe it was, you know, fear of a concert. I didn’t know she was going to live or die then and feeling the responsibility and guilt. Maybe there maybe it was just a coward’s way. I don’t know. But I just remember that I just wanted to be back in the sea. And it was it was a really difficult thing not to go back in. Wow.

 

Ari: Wow. Okay, so, um, what? Let me ask you this, okay, after this whole episode. I mean, did you ever fall to a point so low that you said to yourself, you know what, I can’t do this. I quit. I’m giving up on my dreams, you know, I’m out, you know, because it kind of sounds like that’s where you’re at. At that point. I don’t know if that’s true or not. But if it is, my question then is how did you make the comeback? How did you get out of that depression, you know that severe depression and and cert and totally turn your life around, you know, to where you are today.

 

Garry: Hmm. I would think that particular occasion wasn’t the sort of low points of that but there have been times before that. And I used to use a really stupid strategy which was I don’t think a lot of people that reached a low do this will be play morose music. Almost like in this belief, if you can take yourself lower to the bottom of the well that you spin back out. And it just doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. Yeah, that that’d be the last thing I teach clients that I work with no But those were the type of things I was trying to do around 1516. A lowest point, I would guess, in my life after that would have been the end of that first marriage and, and leaving my 14 year old daughter that’s, you know, in interview techniques when I was in the corporate world, that drowning situation, I would use that as a technique. I’ve asked people, what was the hardest thing they’d ever done? And then I’d bang, I say, I, I swept, sorry, I swam away from my kids and let them dry. Is the statement I would make? Yeah, of course, embellishing stuff slightly to have a dramatic effect on them. Because I wanted to know truth from people in an interview. But it wasn’t even when I look back now, it it’s gone past that the hardest thing I’ve ever done was leaving my daughter. At that time, I’d have to say, now I’ve got a beautiful relationship with my daughter. But it was difficult. For for a while it was really difficult. And I contemplated checking out then. Absolutely. How did I get out of it? Just knowing that something supports you in the end, if again, if you surrender, what did I do in the drowning I surrendered? It’s almost like if you accept the death may be the next thing. It isn’t. You know, it is a bit like the Bible story perhaps of like, having to sacrifice his son, and then send that’s fine. You don’t have to be you just you were willing to. If you’re willing to die in service of others, or rescue and others, then you don’t have to. Well,

 

Ari: so what are you doing now? What are we up to now?

 

Garry: I love running the Maui Thai martial arts has been something seven years old when I started. So now it’s 48 years I’ve been doing martial arts. Because I see the change in people. That’s one aspect. That’s like my hobby aspect, I guess. And then in the day times I’m working with whether it’s business people, elite athletes, or just somebody who’s struggling with depression, anxiety, different forms of mental health. Particularly what I found in life really is that those that do things like business, sports exceptionally well also do depression and anxiety exceptionally well. If it starts to go in the other direction, there’s no half measures, they do everything at 100%. And it’s understanding that they have that inbuilt strategy, that’s what you can use to turn it around and just reshape it into a positive aspect. All of that takes up a lot of time. Yeah, we all know what the world is going through at the moment. Absolutely. Isn’t there never really. And I end up doing particularly from military in that particular part of the world. I do that for free. Really? Because of what they’re doing for us. Sure.

 

Ari: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you know, it’s, it’s quite a story really is to, you know, send a shiver up my spine. I have to be honest with you, you know, that was absolutely amazing. Before we go, is there anything else that you would like to share with my audience? Maybe some advice, some words of wisdom?

 

Garry: Yeah. I don’t know if you can see it on. Here. Okay. I’ll put that up a bit closer. That’s my core belief. Except nothing. believe nothing, check everything. Sounds very cynical, but it’s a process. Newton didn’t accepted Einstein didn’t accept or believe the status quo. They questioned. Questioning everything leads you to growth. Asking the right questions, asking the wrong questions. What’s going to go wrong today? Yeah, that’s the wrong question. Asking the right questions. What’s gonna go right today? But the check everything’s the really important thing. It means try it. Yeah. Somebody says something to you have a new perception, a new way of looking at it and rather than just reject it We’re so slammed down or sensor it. Who is trying? Maybe it does work. Maybe that strategy is for you, after all.

 

Very nice, very nice words of wisdom. I like I like to think about somebody once said to me, trust, but verify.

 

Garry: Yeah. A big influence on me in business was Dr. Edwards Deming. You know, that’s the highest quality award you can get in in Japan. And he said In God We Trust in everybody else must provide data.

 

I always started and God we trust all of this pay cash.

 

Not for much longer because long, she’s gone.

 

Ari: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. So Gary, if people want to get in touch with you to learn more about what you do? What would what would be the best way for them to do that? Do you have a website? Email? Yeah.

 

Garry: So website, W WW. Gary, that’s maybe that’s we two hours GA double R Y. Jones, J o n e. S coaching.com. Facebook is a good way to get hold of me. That’s you can find me on Gary Goldstar Jones. And my email is Gary Jones. coaching@gmail.com. Let’s make it all very easy. It sounds simple

 

Ari: enough sound simple enough. Well, Gary, thanks so much for sharing your story of my audience, giving people the motivation that they need to persevere in all the struggles in life. Good luck going forward. You been listening to us prison bricks, and I’m your host, Gary Schomer. Remember, if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud, like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time, your career, your business your life. If you know you’re not enjoying all the success, satisfaction and significance that you desire, then it’s time for you to book a call with me at call with ari.com Check out my whispers and bricks Academy. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

 

 

 Ray Hurst Rewrite Your Story

Summary:

Ray Hurst (also known as Papa Ray Hurst shares his incredible story with us. He has had three businesses, started a ministry, and overcome two depressions. Ray shares his story of what he learned about depression, how he learned to overcome it, and how he teaches others to do the same. He shares the whispers that led to an open a coaching business and pursuing his passion. Best of all, he shares advice on how to rewrite the chapters of your story that are holding you back and free yourself from depression.

Ray Hurst Rewrite Your Story

Episode Transcription

 

Intro Plays

 

Ari: My name is Ari Schobrunn I’m your host. Today I have with me papa Ray, who’s been married to the same amazing woman for 36 years. He’s an international speaker and coach, a pastor, missionary, author, artist, and poet. I don’t know where he gets the time to do all that. Anyway, he started right he has started run three different companies and a ministry. During his lifetime, he has survived two major depressions, the last one coming within five minutes of losing his life, and is now teaching people how to understand their owner’s manual, leading them into major life changing breakthroughs in a matter of a few hours. Ray has become a coach because of his passion for helping people be better. He teaches people how to change the meaning of what happened in their past, so will not be a part of their future. Please help me welcome, Papa Ray are

 

Ray: doing amazing. Thank you.

 

Ari:That’s wonderful. Great. So as you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks, the whispers of those voices telling you what the right thing to do is and they represent the good life. The bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life, we all know, life is not a straight line. There are many ups and downs, many bumps in the road. And, you know, everybody goes through something at some point in time. Some have bigger bricks and have smaller bricks and have more bricks and have less bricks. But before we get into that, first things first, how did you get the name Papa Bray.

 

Ray: So when I went to Brazil in 2004, on a mission trip, the Holy Spirit told me to stand in the place of this girl, as her father and bless her as my daughter. That started my ministry called the Father’s blessing. And went back in 2006. Literally, every single person that came to me for prayer, the Holy Spirit said it’s their dad. Out of that, two girls stayed in touch. And in inevitably, I went back for more times, on my own solo trips to just share the Father’s blessing. Now people in Brazil simply call me papa. They don’t call me Pastor. They don’t call me right. They just simply call me, Papa. Wow, I go by Ray.

 

Ari: Wow, what a great story. A great story. All right. So let’s get into this. When you were just a child, I think at the age of four. That was when you got hit with your first brick. Want to tell us about that?

 

Ray: Yeah, I, at the time, I didn’t realize it was a major break that would dictate the rest of my life. My father left my home when I was four years old. I grew up in a conservative Anabaptist Mennonite community. Sadly, and unfortunately, 54 years ago, that community had no clue how to deal with separation and divorce. They really did not know anything about it. They didn’t know how to respond to it. They didn’t know. And so anyway, I grew up with a lot of wrong beliefs mindsets. And I believed and said all my life up until seven years ago, I’m abandoned. I’m rejected. Well, guess how I live my life. Every authority figure, every pastor, every boss, every teacher, I knew. And I could predict they were going to abandon me or reject me. So guess how I live? Wow. It’s very real, what we believe there is what we will, what our perception of our past will always be our projection or our future, until we change it.

 

Ari: Wow, wow. That’s powerful. Now, in your bio, you mentioned that you ran like three successful companies. And yet you had two major bouts of depression. I think you were 30 years old when you had the first bout. Can you tell me what was going on back then?

 

Ray: Yeah, so um, I like to tell people how did I get into my depression being a relatively intelligent person. So being intelligent has nothing to do with being falling into depression. Your IQ or your intellectual intelligence is not going to keep you out of depression. Because depression is an emotional and when you look at EQ or emotional awareness, it is erotical, it can drop, go from as high as 720 bits of data to as low as 20, which is your stress response. So when you fall into a depression or into a funk and you can’t process and you can’t function, you didn’t lose your intellectual intelligence. It’s your emotional awareness, that took a major hit. So like to tell people, if you took a piece of paper, and you laid it on top of another piece of paper, you do that 40 times a day doesn’t sound like much do that every single day for 50 years, you’re going to have a mound of papers that you cannot see past. And all you’re going to see in life is what’s written on them papers. Because every single day, you put that same thought. And that became that same idea. That same idea became that belief, that belief became your actions, your actions become your lifestyle, your lifestyle, created a new thought, gave you a new idea, give you a new belief, a new action, new lifestyle. So it’s every time you lay a piece of paper on top of it, the other one, and you don’t take the other ones away that were wrong. All them thoughts become them ideas that eventually will become what who you are. So it’s, it is I was gonna say is not difficult at all, to fall in depression. It’s actually very easy. Because you do nothing different. And you will do the same thing.

 

Ari: Right? I always tell people, you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. That’s insanity. But yet, that’s what most of us do every single day. You know, we don’t make those changes that we need to change.

 

Ray:Yeah, unfortunately, very unfortunate.

 

Ari: Right. Now, I think in our last conversation that we had offline, you mentioned to me that you had your three businesses but that you lost your businesses, you had lost your house. So what was what was going on there?

 

Ray: So 30 years ago, and my first depression, I was electrical contractor, I was had some limited amount of success, things were going well, I bought a house we were doing well. And again, is them one thought on top of another thought that I did not simply take my thoughts captive. And I did not be renewed by transforming my mind is allowed these things to build up until they become so overwhelming. I could have literally told you how to do all the electrical work at the time I was doing residential homes, I could have sat down and explained to you exactly what needed to be done, what size of wire, how many receptacles everything. Intellectually, I was still aware, I understood. Emotionally, I was overwhelmed. And just completely unable to function I was sleep 1012 hours a day, wake up totally exhausted. It physically, emotionally, spiritually numb, I was just completely overwhelmed. And so that just built up. And then people would say to me, Well, Ray, just go out and work, just go do something. I can’t. But my family they couldn’t understand that is depression is not an intellectual, it’s an emotional. And so you dive into a little bit later what the mechanics of emotions are. And when that mechanics of them emotions start going, it just drives it harder. It’s like drilling into the ground. And the more the emotions go, the harder it drills, and the farther it takes you down to tongda. I mean deeper and deeper and deeper. And the more people say just get over it, the worse it makes. It literally makes it worse. It amplifies is like turning up the amperage. It’s like you crank it up to 220 volts

 

Ari: or go like a true electrician. So what about Okay, so, first of all, how did you get out of that funk? How did you get out of that depression? And then what happened when the second one hit?

 

Ray: The first one, I think it was just a matter of time. I literally had to sell my business file bankruptcy. So my house walked away with $2,000 for my life’s work at that time. I mean, relatively for what I was doing, and what I built. There was nothing. I mean, literally, right peanuts and so it was just a matter of time. Trying to find stability. So all the pressure was gone. We’re behind a new mortgage. And so the relief, the bankruptcy and the sun house on everything and getting a job, having a steady schedule, gave me some kind of normalcy, and gave me some kind of a relief. But it wasn’t permanent. Because there was a lot of, you know, a lot of a roller coaster for next 20 years. Wow. And, again, it’s it’s all about that one thought stacked on top of another thought never correcting it. And that’s why it is so so easy to get caught up in this trap. And yeah, so just finding that sense of normalcy, getting that job. But it didn’t take me long, you know, I didn’t like working for somebody, because I’m a very creative person. Right? I didn’t like being trapped in. So it didn’t take me long, maybe two years before I was back in my own business again, running and then I went from electrical contractor to building signs. And that did that for the last 16 years. Wow. In 2018 is always love coaching, mentoring, counseling, helping people, right? I said to my wife, I said, Wow, I want to be a coach, I want to start charging people for coaching. So 2018, we officially launched Eilat coaching, is I call myself a personal transformation coach. Because my goal is to transform people’s lives.

 

Ari: So I guess, I guess you, you finally listen to the whispers. Alright, and becoming a coach, which led you to discover I’m sure some deeper truths about yourself, about your life, and what was really and what was really important to you. And now you’re helping people to overcome some of the bricks that they’ve been thrown at, that they’ve had thrown at them. Right. And some of the bricks that, you know, you’ve, you know, some of the stuff that you’ve gone through. And, you know, and it’s, it’s gone like full circle, basically.

 

Ray: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And that is, my greatest joy in life is helping somebody I want to be for the world what the world was not for me when I needed them the most. Sadly, and unfortunately, the world really, or I should say, my world, was not able to give me what I needed. And I look back and I that circle of influence I had at that time. And you know, the sad part is external got it. They don’t get it. It’s sad, because so many of them are trapped in their same bubble. But as as you grow, and you see these things, you kind of feel bad for them. Before I was angry, before I was really, really angry at them. When I realized they didn’t give me more. And I realized they weren’t there. They weren’t not there. Even though in their own way. They tried to be there. But what they did was devastating. And saying just get over Oh, come on. Just go do Good job. Good work. What’s wrong with you? Well, you know, you’re stupid, or implying that Pat is unbelievably devastating. That’s not what a person needs when you’re in the throes of depression. Now, I hear you, I hear you. It’s the worst thing you could do is telling somebody just go do it. Right? If they could just go do it, then what would it do? When somebody does that, it’s like taking a break and hitting them over the head. You become the next brick right in their life. And then what it does, it amplifies the problem. Night don’t get me wrong. There are people out there that abuse it. There are people out there that are hypochondriacs that everything in anything wrong, and they’re abusing our sympathy and empathy. Yes, there is a group of people that’s No, it’s inevitable. Because the same is you know, you can’t just say get over it. You’re why are they that way? There’s always a core reason there’s always a root if you never get to the root you can ever correct right. And that’s the key is you got to get to the root. Where did it start? Where did that creep in? Where did that idea where that thoughts come from? If you really break it down, I really think you deal with started with a thought you were born with it. You weren’t born with them fears you weren’t Born with them doubts and anxieties. You’re a bird born with that it was a learned behavior. And a beautiful thing about a learned behavior is you can change the meaning and which will radically change your life. Right? Right, I hear you. You’re the only one that wrote that chapter. God did not write it. The devil did not write it. Nobody wrote that shot only you did. And guess what? Because you have freewill. You can go back and rewrite that chapter. I did. So that’s what I teach my clients to them. I just teach them how to rewrite that meaning. And it’s amazing how quickly people can be set free. When they’re ready to go rewrite the chapter. The key, they have to be ready. Oh, painful, it hurts. It’s very painful. It’s not fun. But I tell you why living in a depression is no fun at all. It steals everything. Depression is a thief. Depression is real. And it’s it’s thief, it will steal you. It will steal your life is still your joy. It is still everything from but it doesn’t have to be you. It doesn’t have to be you and you don’t have to be that you can be free. You’re allowed to be free.

 

Ari: Absolutely, absolutely. Very, very wise words. Wise words. Let me ask you something. Who was the one person that you would point to? To that, you know, what person would you say had the most influence in your life? And why?

 

Ray: Wow. So in the in the in the last seven years, I’m not to call Dr. Joe Dispenza. Because he really spoken in most clearest way possible of what is happening in my brain, what I call the mechanics of my emotions, is I was getting downloads from the Holy Spirit. And I was kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it really makes sense. Then when I listen, I could go to Spence’s like fam, it just lit up on my oh my goodness, this solidifies everything that I was sensing. It just gave it a nod that the Holy Spirit was unable to give me that. But when Dr. Joe Dispenza said it, it just like bam. Wow, that resonated. Confirmation just resonated. Yeah. And you know, the beautiful part about Dr. Joe Dispenza. Even though he may not be a devout Christian like I am, he still speaks truth. He still has a huge element of truth. And when I when you know the truth, the truth sets you free is when you hear the truth. You’re like, yeah, I resonate with that. And you know what the beautiful part was? It was easy. It wasn’t complicated. Wasn’t this complex? Take this task and then take this pill and then come back in two weeks and do this task and train your brain every day. No, it when you listen to him, it’s like this at this is not difficult. But again, I can’t I can’t emphasize enough. We have to be at that state of willingness and to be prepared to go through the process. I call it a simple step. A hard process. Now I know personally helped people have major major life changing breakthroughs in less than an hour. Wow, every time but it’s happened. The key is I can’t emphasize enough the key is they were ready. They were 100% ready for that breakthrough. They were desperate for that breakthrough. Not everybody’s at that place. And that’s okay. Be okay, where you are just don’t stay where you are.

 

Ari: Wow, I would ask if you have any words of wisdom to share with my audience, but I think you’ve just shared a whole boatload of words of wisdom for my audience. So let me ask you this if people want to get in touch with you, what would be the best the best way for them to do that? You have an email you have a website social media.

 

Ray: I have two websites. Let me give you my coaching website is Eilat i l AP. No w.com. That’s www.Eilatnow.com. Okay. The Ministry website is where I stand as a father and I bless people as a son and a daughter and that is Father’s blessing dot info as Father’s blessing dot i n f o and if you go on there is actually a video for the son where I stand as a father and I bless him as a son. And there’s a video for a daughter, where I stand as a father and bless him as a daughter as To share the things that you may have never heard from your Father which is another big part of the healing process

 

wow okay, so it’s I left now at

 

Ray: at why not now calm I locked down calm and father’s blood His blessings God I nfo blessing single fathers right fathers with an S blessing, right dot inf O great you can also follow me on Facebook. Okay lots of really positive content on Facebook on a regular basis videos and posts and comments. So I really my heart’s desire is to be for the world what the world was not for me when I needed them. So I’m always trying to put out really high quality content thought provoking to really help people see I never want anybody be the same because they met me and I believe nobody will be the same because they met me

 

I know I won’t be the same because I mentioned this Sure.

 

Right. Facebook is rehearsed on

 

Facebook. Right Harris okay. No, papa.

 

Ray: Well, it’s in parentheses, Papa. But if you just simply put in rehearse we’ll find you’ll find me God. Right. Yeah, you could put in Papa Ray you

 

Ari: Yeah. And you to re thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. Good luck going forward. You’re really doing some great service for the world. You’re listening to whispers in bricks and I’m your host Iris Sharma. Remember, if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud, like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time, your career, your business your life. If you know you’re not enjoying all the success, satisfaction significance that you desire, and it’s time for you to book a call with me at www call with ari.com Check out my whispers and bricks Academy. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

 

 Ray Hurst Rewrite Your Story

Summary:

Ray Hurst (also known as Papa Ray Hurst shares his incredible story with us. He has had three businesses, started a ministry, and overcome two depressions. Ray shares his story of what he learned about depression, how he learned to overcome it, and how he teaches others to do the same. He shares the whispers that led to an open a coaching business and pursuing his passion. Best of all, he shares advice on how to rewrite the chapters of your story that are holding you back and free yourself from depression.

 

Episode Transcription

 

Intro Plays

 

Ari: My name is Ari Schobrunn I’m your host. Today I have with me papa Ray, who’s been married to the same amazing woman for 36 years. He’s an international speaker and coach, a pastor, missionary, author, artist, and poet. I don’t know where he gets the time to do all that. Anyway, he started right he has started run three different companies and a ministry. During his lifetime, he has survived two major depressions, the last one coming within five minutes of losing his life, and is now teaching people how to understand their owner’s manual, leading them into major life changing breakthroughs in a matter of a few hours. Ray has become a coach because of his passion for helping people be better. He teaches people how to change the meaning of what happened in their past, so will not be a part of their future. Please help me welcome, Papa Ray are

 

Ray: doing amazing. Thank you.

 

Ari:That’s wonderful. Great. So as you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks, the whispers of those voices telling you what the right thing to do is and they represent the good life. The bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life, we all know, life is not a straight line. There are many ups and downs, many bumps in the road. And, you know, everybody goes through something at some point in time. Some have bigger bricks and have smaller bricks and have more bricks and have less bricks. But before we get into that, first things first, how did you get the name Papa Bray.

 

Ray: So when I went to Brazil in 2004, on a mission trip, the Holy Spirit told me to stand in the place of this girl, as her father and bless her as my daughter. That started my ministry called the Father’s blessing. And went back in 2006. Literally, every single person that came to me for prayer, the Holy Spirit said it’s their dad. Out of that, two girls stayed in touch. And in inevitably, I went back for more times, on my own solo trips to just share the Father’s blessing. Now people in Brazil simply call me papa. They don’t call me Pastor. They don’t call me right. They just simply call me, Papa. Wow, I go by Ray.

 

Ari: Wow, what a great story. A great story. All right. So let’s get into this. When you were just a child, I think at the age of four. That was when you got hit with your first brick. Want to tell us about that?

 

Ray: Yeah, I, at the time, I didn’t realize it was a major break that would dictate the rest of my life. My father left my home when I was four years old. I grew up in a conservative Anabaptist Mennonite community. Sadly, and unfortunately, 54 years ago, that community had no clue how to deal with separation and divorce. They really did not know anything about it. They didn’t know how to respond to it. They didn’t know. And so anyway, I grew up with a lot of wrong beliefs mindsets. And I believed and said all my life up until seven years ago, I’m abandoned. I’m rejected. Well, guess how I live my life. Every authority figure, every pastor, every boss, every teacher, I knew. And I could predict they were going to abandon me or reject me. So guess how I live? Wow. It’s very real, what we believe there is what we will, what our perception of our past will always be our projection or our future, until we change it.

 

Ari: Wow, wow. That’s powerful. Now, in your bio, you mentioned that you ran like three successful companies. And yet you had two major bouts of depression. I think you were 30 years old when you had the first bout. Can you tell me what was going on back then?

 

Ray: Yeah, so um, I like to tell people how did I get into my depression being a relatively intelligent person. So being intelligent has nothing to do with being falling into depression. Your IQ or your intellectual intelligence is not going to keep you out of depression. Because depression is an emotional and when you look at EQ or emotional awareness, it is erotical, it can drop, go from as high as 720 bits of data to as low as 20, which is your stress response. So when you fall into a depression or into a funk and you can’t process and you can’t function, you didn’t lose your intellectual intelligence. It’s your emotional awareness, that took a major hit. So like to tell people, if you took a piece of paper, and you laid it on top of another piece of paper, you do that 40 times a day doesn’t sound like much do that every single day for 50 years, you’re going to have a mound of papers that you cannot see past. And all you’re going to see in life is what’s written on them papers. Because every single day, you put that same thought. And that became that same idea. That same idea became that belief, that belief became your actions, your actions become your lifestyle, your lifestyle, created a new thought, gave you a new idea, give you a new belief, a new action, new lifestyle. So it’s every time you lay a piece of paper on top of it, the other one, and you don’t take the other ones away that were wrong. All them thoughts become them ideas that eventually will become what who you are. So it’s, it is I was gonna say is not difficult at all, to fall in depression. It’s actually very easy. Because you do nothing different. And you will do the same thing.

 

Ari: Right? I always tell people, you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. That’s insanity. But yet, that’s what most of us do every single day. You know, we don’t make those changes that we need to change.

 

Ray:Yeah, unfortunately, very unfortunate.

 

Ari: Right. Now, I think in our last conversation that we had offline, you mentioned to me that you had your three businesses but that you lost your businesses, you had lost your house. So what was what was going on there?

 

Ray: So 30 years ago, and my first depression, I was electrical contractor, I was had some limited amount of success, things were going well, I bought a house we were doing well. And again, is them one thought on top of another thought that I did not simply take my thoughts captive. And I did not be renewed by transforming my mind is allowed these things to build up until they become so overwhelming. I could have literally told you how to do all the electrical work at the time I was doing residential homes, I could have sat down and explained to you exactly what needed to be done, what size of wire, how many receptacles everything. Intellectually, I was still aware, I understood. Emotionally, I was overwhelmed. And just completely unable to function I was sleep 1012 hours a day, wake up totally exhausted. It physically, emotionally, spiritually numb, I was just completely overwhelmed. And so that just built up. And then people would say to me, Well, Ray, just go out and work, just go do something. I can’t. But my family they couldn’t understand that is depression is not an intellectual, it’s an emotional. And so you dive into a little bit later what the mechanics of emotions are. And when that mechanics of them emotions start going, it just drives it harder. It’s like drilling into the ground. And the more the emotions go, the harder it drills, and the farther it takes you down to tongda. I mean deeper and deeper and deeper. And the more people say just get over it, the worse it makes. It literally makes it worse. It amplifies is like turning up the amperage. It’s like you crank it up to 220 volts

 

Ari: or go like a true electrician. So what about Okay, so, first of all, how did you get out of that funk? How did you get out of that depression? And then what happened when the second one hit?

 

Ray: The first one, I think it was just a matter of time. I literally had to sell my business file bankruptcy. So my house walked away with $2,000 for my life’s work at that time. I mean, relatively for what I was doing, and what I built. There was nothing. I mean, literally, right peanuts and so it was just a matter of time. Trying to find stability. So all the pressure was gone. We’re behind a new mortgage. And so the relief, the bankruptcy and the sun house on everything and getting a job, having a steady schedule, gave me some kind of normalcy, and gave me some kind of a relief. But it wasn’t permanent. Because there was a lot of, you know, a lot of a roller coaster for next 20 years. Wow. And, again, it’s it’s all about that one thought stacked on top of another thought never correcting it. And that’s why it is so so easy to get caught up in this trap. And yeah, so just finding that sense of normalcy, getting that job. But it didn’t take me long, you know, I didn’t like working for somebody, because I’m a very creative person. Right? I didn’t like being trapped in. So it didn’t take me long, maybe two years before I was back in my own business again, running and then I went from electrical contractor to building signs. And that did that for the last 16 years. Wow. In 2018 is always love coaching, mentoring, counseling, helping people, right? I said to my wife, I said, Wow, I want to be a coach, I want to start charging people for coaching. So 2018, we officially launched Eilat coaching, is I call myself a personal transformation coach. Because my goal is to transform people’s lives.

 

Ari: So I guess, I guess you, you finally listen to the whispers. Alright, and becoming a coach, which led you to discover I’m sure some deeper truths about yourself, about your life, and what was really and what was really important to you. And now you’re helping people to overcome some of the bricks that they’ve been thrown at, that they’ve had thrown at them. Right. And some of the bricks that, you know, you’ve, you know, some of the stuff that you’ve gone through. And, you know, and it’s, it’s gone like full circle, basically.

 

Ray: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And that is, my greatest joy in life is helping somebody I want to be for the world what the world was not for me when I needed them the most. Sadly, and unfortunately, the world really, or I should say, my world, was not able to give me what I needed. And I look back and I that circle of influence I had at that time. And you know, the sad part is external got it. They don’t get it. It’s sad, because so many of them are trapped in their same bubble. But as as you grow, and you see these things, you kind of feel bad for them. Before I was angry, before I was really, really angry at them. When I realized they didn’t give me more. And I realized they weren’t there. They weren’t not there. Even though in their own way. They tried to be there. But what they did was devastating. And saying just get over Oh, come on. Just go do Good job. Good work. What’s wrong with you? Well, you know, you’re stupid, or implying that Pat is unbelievably devastating. That’s not what a person needs when you’re in the throes of depression. Now, I hear you, I hear you. It’s the worst thing you could do is telling somebody just go do it. Right? If they could just go do it, then what would it do? When somebody does that, it’s like taking a break and hitting them over the head. You become the next brick right in their life. And then what it does, it amplifies the problem. Night don’t get me wrong. There are people out there that abuse it. There are people out there that are hypochondriacs that everything in anything wrong, and they’re abusing our sympathy and empathy. Yes, there is a group of people that’s No, it’s inevitable. Because the same is you know, you can’t just say get over it. You’re why are they that way? There’s always a core reason there’s always a root if you never get to the root you can ever correct right. And that’s the key is you got to get to the root. Where did it start? Where did that creep in? Where did that idea where that thoughts come from? If you really break it down, I really think you deal with started with a thought you were born with it. You weren’t born with them fears you weren’t Born with them doubts and anxieties. You’re a bird born with that it was a learned behavior. And a beautiful thing about a learned behavior is you can change the meaning and which will radically change your life. Right? Right, I hear you. You’re the only one that wrote that chapter. God did not write it. The devil did not write it. Nobody wrote that shot only you did. And guess what? Because you have freewill. You can go back and rewrite that chapter. I did. So that’s what I teach my clients to them. I just teach them how to rewrite that meaning. And it’s amazing how quickly people can be set free. When they’re ready to go rewrite the chapter. The key, they have to be ready. Oh, painful, it hurts. It’s very painful. It’s not fun. But I tell you why living in a depression is no fun at all. It steals everything. Depression is a thief. Depression is real. And it’s it’s thief, it will steal you. It will steal your life is still your joy. It is still everything from but it doesn’t have to be you. It doesn’t have to be you and you don’t have to be that you can be free. You’re allowed to be free.

 

Ari: Absolutely, absolutely. Very, very wise words. Wise words. Let me ask you something. Who was the one person that you would point to? To that, you know, what person would you say had the most influence in your life? And why?

 

Ray: Wow. So in the in the in the last seven years, I’m not to call Dr. Joe Dispenza. Because he really spoken in most clearest way possible of what is happening in my brain, what I call the mechanics of my emotions, is I was getting downloads from the Holy Spirit. And I was kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it really makes sense. Then when I listen, I could go to Spence’s like fam, it just lit up on my oh my goodness, this solidifies everything that I was sensing. It just gave it a nod that the Holy Spirit was unable to give me that. But when Dr. Joe Dispenza said it, it just like bam. Wow, that resonated. Confirmation just resonated. Yeah. And you know, the beautiful part about Dr. Joe Dispenza. Even though he may not be a devout Christian like I am, he still speaks truth. He still has a huge element of truth. And when I when you know the truth, the truth sets you free is when you hear the truth. You’re like, yeah, I resonate with that. And you know what the beautiful part was? It was easy. It wasn’t complicated. Wasn’t this complex? Take this task and then take this pill and then come back in two weeks and do this task and train your brain every day. No, it when you listen to him, it’s like this at this is not difficult. But again, I can’t I can’t emphasize enough. We have to be at that state of willingness and to be prepared to go through the process. I call it a simple step. A hard process. Now I know personally helped people have major major life changing breakthroughs in less than an hour. Wow, every time but it’s happened. The key is I can’t emphasize enough the key is they were ready. They were 100% ready for that breakthrough. They were desperate for that breakthrough. Not everybody’s at that place. And that’s okay. Be okay, where you are just don’t stay where you are.

 

Ari: Wow, I would ask if you have any words of wisdom to share with my audience, but I think you’ve just shared a whole boatload of words of wisdom for my audience. So let me ask you this if people want to get in touch with you, what would be the best the best way for them to do that? You have an email you have a website social media.

 

Ray: I have two websites. Let me give you my coaching website is Eilat i l AP. No w.com. That’s www.Eilatnow.com. Okay. The Ministry website is where I stand as a father and I bless people as a son and a daughter and that is Father’s blessing dot info as Father’s blessing dot i n f o and if you go on there is actually a video for the son where I stand as a father and I bless him as a son. And there’s a video for a daughter, where I stand as a father and bless him as a daughter as To share the things that you may have never heard from your Father which is another big part of the healing process

 

wow okay, so it’s I left now at

 

Ray: at why not now calm I locked down calm and father’s blood His blessings God I nfo blessing single fathers right fathers with an S blessing, right dot inf O great you can also follow me on Facebook. Okay lots of really positive content on Facebook on a regular basis videos and posts and comments. So I really my heart’s desire is to be for the world what the world was not for me when I needed them. So I’m always trying to put out really high quality content thought provoking to really help people see I never want anybody be the same because they met me and I believe nobody will be the same because they met me

 

I know I won’t be the same because I mentioned this Sure.

 

Right. Facebook is rehearsed on

 

Facebook. Right Harris okay. No, papa.

 

Ray: Well, it’s in parentheses, Papa. But if you just simply put in rehearse we’ll find you’ll find me God. Right. Yeah, you could put in Papa Ray you

 

Ari: Yeah. And you to re thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. Good luck going forward. You’re really doing some great service for the world. You’re listening to whispers in bricks and I’m your host Iris Sharma. Remember, if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud, like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time, your career, your business your life. If you know you’re not enjoying all the success, satisfaction significance that you desire, and it’s time for you to book a call with me at www call with ari.com Check out my whispers and bricks Academy. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

 

 Laura Formentini The Power of Small Acts of Kindness

Summary:

Laura Formentini has an amazingly inspiring story. Laura started her career as an anthropologist. After seeing how disproportionate the lives of the poor and the rich were. She wanted to capture the work that non-profits do to help people. It started as a passion and turned into a career. She was in Ethiopia when she was hit with a massive brick. She received the news that his son had committed suicide. She was devastated and alone. She talks about the whisper, the act of kindness that helped her get through and changed her life. She explains why she wrote 21 olives trees and how it can help you. She talks about the extraordinary work she is doing now. Best of all, she reminds us `how a small act of kindness can create a huge ripple of kindness.

Episode Transcription

Intro Plays

Ari: Welcome to whispers and bricks. My name is Ari Shonbrun. I’m your host. My guest today is Laura Forman teeny. She is an author, nonprofit photographer, and trauma recovery advocate, who has worked all over the world with countless NGOs and seemingly ordinary people who have accomplished the extraordinary for more than 15 years. Her world collapsed when while working on one of our books in Ethiopia, she received the news that our son had taken his own life on the other side of the planet in Denver, Colorado. A stranger helped her through the hardest day of her life by holding her hand all day until it was time for her to fly back to the US by herself, saying that he wasn’t doing anything special because it was his human responsibility. Laura has become a passionate advocate of how selfless human acts of kindness can help change the world. The strangers act of kindness prompted her to write her upcoming book 21 olive trees, a mother’s walk through the grief of suicide to hope and healing. That book received an endorsement from Deepak from Deepak Chopra. And she dedicated the book to her son, and all the empaths in the world, as she reminds others of the importance of holding each other’s head during hard times and asking the world to join her in this effort to retrieve our intrinsic humaneness. Please help me welcome Laura Forman Tini. Look, Laura, how are you?

Laura: Hi, Ari. I’m really well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Ari: Oh, it’s my, my pleasure, my pleasure. How you been? What’s going on?

Laura: Yeah, everything great. I’ve been I’m launching the book 21 olive trees in two months. And so I’m in the midst of working with various bookstores and putting together my book tour, both in the US and in Europe for next year. So pretty easy.

Ari: Well, that’s great. That’s great. Thanks so much for coming on the show, as my guest. You know, as you know, the name of the podcast is whispers and bricks, and the whispers of those voices telling us what the right thing to do is, and they represent the good in life. And the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be real, we all go through some, we all get hit with some sort of a brick at one point in time or another in our lives, some with more, some with less, some bigger, some smaller, but we all go through it. Now there isn’t the reason I asked you to be on the show is because after I read your story, I knew that there were people in my audience who go through the same things that you have gone through, they’ve been hit with bricks, much like what you have gone through, and they needed to hear and to know that they could get through the trials and tribulations, the same way that you did. They need to know that there are whispers out there that could save them. Now to start with, I’d like you to share with my audience, like what was life like growing up? And how did you decide on becoming a professional photographer.

Laura: So growing up, I grew up in Italy, and I left my country when I was about 20 years old. And I was very passionate about archaeology because I really wanted to travel. And I’ve always been very curious and interested in the culture in general, and just wanted to explore the world. And so that was an archaeologist for quite a quite a bit, until my travels really taught me how much disproportion there was between rich and poor in the world. And so I slowly left the archaeology to become a photographer and I became a photographer. First, it was kind of like a passion. And then it turned into a profession. And I decided to work with nonprofits and really capture their day to day life and see how, you know, really captured their grid to their perseverance and how no matter what, you know, a lot of people keep going and so I’ve worked with orphanages and communities and animal welfare organizations and, and so it it’s still I still was able to travel of course, but it was more of a travel with a purpose. So it’s kept us desire to travel all over the world, and I incorporated the purpose and so I was able to work with Wonderful people who’ve helped me to really realize that we are all the same in the end, doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor. We all need the same things. And you know, love is always at the base. And it’s really the force that keeps us keeps us strong and can love is really something that can change the world in a big way. So, that’s, that’s what I’ve been through for the past 15 years.

Ari:Are you married?

Laura: I was I am in a relationship. Yeah.

Ari: Okay, but you weren’t okay. I don’t want to ask the hard hard questions. So I will, um,

Laura: oh, no, that’s fine. That’s fine.

Ari: I mean, when? Okay, I’m just Wow, I’ve never been stumped for words before. Okay. So I’m solo. Let me ask you this. So you were in Ethiopia? When you had this major brick thrown at you. Now? Were you married at that time?

Laura: I was not married. It wasn’t a relationship. And it’s, it’s still the same relationship.

Ari: Okay, so yeah. So, but you did, obviously, you did have a child.

Laura: 

Yes, ain t was currently with his family in the States, working for the summer. And he’s, he was 21 at the time. So he was in Colorado at the time while I was in Ethiopia. And I thought things were going fine. Till I received the call. And, obviously, I had to drop everything that I was doing, and cut short my trip in Africa and frantically find a way to get back to the states on the same day. And

Ari: so how old were you at that point? If you don’t mind me asking. I’m sorry. How old? Were you at that point?

Laura: How old was I was 4747.

Ari: Okay, and you were traveling, you’re in Ethiopia, you’re by yourself? I’m assuming?

Laura: Well, I was by myself? Yes. Not really, I was by myself. I didn’t have anybody from the States with me, I had connected with a group of locals in Ethiopia, who were helping me to discover stories of transformation from other local people, how they made it through their lives and what their life was like previous before. Basically, I was just collecting stories of inspirational transformational stories. And and so what happened was I, I had to cut cut short my trip and find this flight. Right back to the States.

Ari: Right. Before before we go on to that. Okay. What I’d like to know is, and I’m sure most like to know, do you have any? You so you were on some sort of not a fact finding mission, so to speak, but more of interesting stories of, of a guess of kindness? Or, you know, the human emotion and the like, is there any story that sticks out in your mind from that period?

Laura: Sure. Well, I spoke with several mothers who had lost their children in childbirth, for instance, and they were discussing how how they had made it through thanks to their families, thanks to their friends and how it had impacted their lives severely, but also how they had come out of that situation by helping other mothers who are going through it. So that was something that happened. I had interviewed, especially one mother who had gone through this the day before I had received the call. So that helped me tremendously because she had so much grit and perseverance. And she was recounting her story to me and, and it was incredible to talk to this woman who seemed completely healed. After having lost, I believe three children in childbirth.

Oh, my God. Yes. Wow. Yeah. I was that just because of a lack of proper medical facilities or Yes,

and she actually lived in a rural area. And in the rural area, unfortunately, they don’t have enough. They don’t even have the proper surgical instruments. They don’t have enough beds, a lot of times the beds are just beat up mattresses and, you know, in the hospitals, I mean, and so it’s, there’s a complete a lot of times you’ll find complete lack of hygiene. And it’s, it’s very, and Ethiopia is one of the poorest countries in the world as well. So it’s very common, unfortunately.

Ari:Okay, so I guess we have the we have the setting here. All right, you’re in a very, very poor country, people, their life expectancy obviously isn’t great. You’re trying to do the best you can try to help as many people as you can gathering stories, taking photos, you know, trying to try to make the world a better place. And you’re doing everything you can. And then you get that phone call, tell us what that was like, please.

Laura: Well, that’s obviously a phone call that shattered my world completely. And what happened was I, again, I had to find a flight to go back and on the same day, and it was not easy, because I was in the rural Ethiopia at the time, okay. And so from the rural Ethiopia, I had to find a driver who take me to Addis Ababa, which is the capital. And then I couldn’t find anything that was just one connection, I had to actually go from Addis Ababa, to Dublin, Ireland, Dublin, Ireland to Boston, and then from Boston, all the way back to Denver, and you’re talking about 35 hour trip, it was insanely long, but it’s all I found for the same day. And so it’s, I booked it. So I was there with a group of people, Ethiopians who helped me to book my flight back, but nobody could fly back with me. Nobody had a passport. And so I took that flight by myself.

Ari: How, what year was this? This was

Laura: two in 2019. It was August 2019. Okay, so it was two years to almost two and a half years ago. And so, one that so my, my tour leader, the tour leader, she told me, Listen, nobody can be with you all day long until the flight departs. And nobody can come back with you to the States because nobody has a passport. But there’s a friend of mine who has volunteered to be with you all day, until your departure. And so this person was a complete stranger, his name’s us. sayfa is from Addis Ababa, and comes from a very poor family and his wife was very pregnant at the time. Any nontheless volunteer to be with me all day long. And so I met him and he met me as I was shivering and shaking under the note, how am I going to do this? How am I going to fly? You know, all the way back there by myself after having gone through this. And so he meets me, I’m shivering, he holds my hand right away. And he, he says to me, you’re okay, louder. You’re okay, sister. You’re going to be okay with me. And so he held my hand all day long. You’re talking about 10 hours. This is a stranger, complete stranger. And he kept checking in with me every every 10 minutes or so. And he kept asking, are you okay? And then Are you okay, sister. So it’s almost like we had a brotherhood a sisterhood right away. I didn’t know him. But it’s almost like I had known him forever. And he was the same for him. And so it’s, it’s incredible. He took me to lunch, he took me to an archaeological museum, knowing that I liked archaeology. That was my passion. And so how am I handle the long and he took me to the airport that evening. And when he was bored, I asked him, I said, Why do you do all of this from you don’t even know me. And all he said was, I didn’t do anything special, louder. It was my human responsibility. So those words, believe it, believe me, stayed with me. And his presence filled my soul. He he I was able to fly back thanks to his presence thanks to his kindness thanks to his words and it was it there is no way I would have ever been able to make it so he was that light that appeared out of the blue that what they call angels, I guess. He really appeared out of the blue and I feel that you know, he he didn’t think that he did anything special because he was his human responsibility but what he’s a small act of kindness really changed my world. It it helped me to start healing. And so I only seen him once but we’ve kept in contact and so we talk maybe once once a week on WhatsApp or and we’ve kept in contact with Kathy touch up told him that I would definitely help him With his business, and I will love to have him over in the States. And I’m actually preparing for a TEDx for next year, and I will love to invite him over and share the stage with him. My, my message is really how small acts of kindness can change the world because it doesn’t have to be anything grandiose, it can be just a small act of kindness, like what he did. But he never know the Maton the magnitude of your acts of kindness,

Ari: right. So basically, you get hit with this major, major brick, you got a phone call that your son took his own life. And then lo and behold, the whispers start to come in the form of this gentleman who starts helping you, and his kindness. And he’s, it’s, it’s just his whispers to, you know, to your mind into your heart. Okay, that actually helps you get through this whole tragedy, taking you to museums to I guess, to help take your mind off of the things not sure you could, but in some way, shape or form to help a little bit. And because of that, you turn around and you decide to take this tragedy and turn it into a positive. Right? So yes, tell us tell us a little bit about that.

Laura: Yeah, so he inspired me to keep going. And again, I only saw him one time. But he’s, he’s presence in he’s an extremely simple man. Very kind for very, very simple. He was, you know, he was he said, he wasn’t doing anything special. But it was just this deep, deep love that he that he was showing towards me that helped me to start healing. So when I went back, within, like about four or five weeks of being back, obviously, we had to go through the process of I don’t even want to talk about it. But you know, after having dealt with my son’s things, I I started writing notes to my son and poems to my son, and, you know, just to in a cathartic way, just to release the pain that I had inside. And then one day, I decided to write a poem, I mean, I’m sorry, a fable. Then another day, I start writing as parts of an introduction. So I had no idea that this would turn into a book, it was really a writing to heal sort of thing. I’m never been a fan of therapy, for instance, I, I’ve tried it a couple of times, but it never worked for me. So writing for me was extremely healing, because I was able to release all the stagnant emotions that I had inside. So I was able to let the emotion flow, okay. And so little by little, I started meeting people who came, who crossed my path. And who, who would say to me, you know, this returning to book, this can be really positive and healing, not just for you, but also for others who are going through the same thing. And so, so it turned out to be a book. And it took me about two years to finish it. So it’s a book of has an wonderful introduction. And it’s a 21 Fables because my son was 21, I decided on the title 21 olive trees, because the olive tree is a symbol of power of regeneration of strength. And, you know, a lot of the of wisdom, a lot of the qualities that my son had, my son was an empath, and I’m an empath as well, he never realized that empathy was his biggest gift. So he left before realizing that empathy can heal. And he always felt that the world was too harsh to live in for him. But so I decided to dedicate this book to, to him and all the indie empaths out there in the world, because I know what it means to be an impact. I am one. And so little by little, again, the right people showed up at the same at the right time, the right. Situations, materialized in a way where I was able to put a book together. And then I started sending out the book to various people, various authors, and I got this amazing endorsement from Deepak Chopra. Without it and so I believe that it’s a book that can be beneficial for anybody who’s going through some sort of personal loss, like really tragic, personal loss. It doesn’t have to be suicide. It can be divorce, it can be manmade or natural disasters. It can be anything that is really hit you really hard. But it’s, it’s my way of saying you can heal from this, you can always turn the negative into a positive. And I was able to do it thanks to an act of kindness and the act of kindness that I received from the Ethiopian street Granger I was able to turn it around and form an epic an act of kindness for the world. This is a gift that I’m gifting to the world. That’s my act of kindness that I have created out of what was given to me in Ethiopia. So it’s almost like a domino effect. It’s been incredibly healing for me to meet this man for just one day. And then I’m hoping that this book will hold as many hands as possible, just like I did with me.

Yeah. So it’s really amazing. I’m going to tell you. When my father died, it’s going on six years now. And he was living in Israel. I was living in the States, and I have a brother who was living in Israel. And he emailed me to tell me that my father passed away. He had been sick. But it was funny because I would I spoke to my brother on Thursday on a Thursday, and I said, Is daddy, okay, oh, do I need to come? And he said, no, they changed his medication. And he’s responding and he looks good. And everything is fine. I said, Okay. And then he passed away on Saturday. Right? And I went when I went to Israel. So what I what I was doing every night, I had my laptop with me every night, I would write about the, the events of the day what was going on. And I found it to be very, very therapeutic. And I was doing it wasn’t for it wasn’t for publication. It wasn’t for, you know, it was just, it was just my feelings. Yeah, things that I was thinking about. And I actually I forgot if I put it out on like, on Facebook, or something I don’t remember. But I do remember people telling me oh, you know, what your writing gave me such inspiration. And it was a planner. And that Yeah, that’s so I kind of know where you’re coming from? Yeah, yeah. 

Ari: Okay. Obviously, you know, mine is more of a natural order of things. Yours was not. But again, you know, it’s I, I hear where you’re coming from, and and it’s wonderful, you know, the things that you’re doing. So, what, so like, what are you up to now you’re writing a book? Are you still doing your photography? Are you still working with the nonprofits? What what’s going on?

Laura: Yeah, I’m doing it all. I’m, obviously well, I have a lot of projects that have been have, you have been moving kind of slow because of COVID. But one of the big projects that I have is with Plan International, which is an organization that helps people sponsor children, and as well as they also advocate for girls rights. So I’ve been sponsoring probably more than 50 children over the past 17 years with them. And I am currently partnering up with them to write a book on the positive impact of child sponsorship. So I was supposed to go last year to Nepal, Bangladesh and India to interview the adults who had been sponsored as children to really cover their, their path. before, during and after sponsorship, so how what kind of positive impact sponsorship has had on their lives. We are reengaging with the current with these countries towards the end of this year, beginning of next year. So I’ll be traveling, hopefully when when the when this country’s reopened, but we can start the interviews virtually. I’m also working on a few projects in Puerto Rico, where I’ve been nonprofit photographer for three different animal welfare organizations. And yeah, and then I still, I’m putting together a campaign, free campaign of sterilization for many stray dogs in South Sicily, where I’ve already I’ve already done a bunch of campaigns down there. There’s trade offs everywhere. So there’s a lot a lot of opportunities to to be an activist. I’ve learned how to fundraise and fundraise for a lot of different organizations and it’s just my passion is to, to to help out into I really realized that we’re all in the same boat and you know if we are able to, to give some of, you know, some of our resources Yeah, Be it you know, anything, you know, just this do it. We’re all in this together. And so it’s my passion to to make the world a better place or at least to try to

the one question, 

Ari: I think the one with the one question I didn’t ask which I should have asked the beginning what was your son’s name?

Laura: So his name was blase. blase, blase BL A is he? Yeah. And he, we him and I were soulmates, we still are I feel his presence, I feel his energy. And we live together on two different countries in the States and Europe. And, and it was just, he was just like an incredibly sweet, generous, ultra sensitive person. We weren’t, we had planned to work together in the nonprofit field. In fact, he was, he wanted to go into documentary films. And so we were very, very, very close. And I feel that it’s almost like I felt his presence as I was writing this book. And it was very healing, because a lot of times, I would wake up the following day after writing without the following day, and I read what I had just written, and I couldn’t believe I didn’t really write all this, it’s, it was so beautiful. And so I feel that we are still working together. And it’s, it’s, it’s just wonderful. I don’t feel I feel that I have healed. I do there are days where it can be tough enough to have him here physically, but I know that it’s for the greater cause. And if they can, if this book can help people, to to heal, to get better to see things from a different perspective. So it’s I believe that that will be that will be worth the pain that I went through.

Ari: Are you still are you still in Colorado?

Laura: No, I I’m actually in California.

Ari: Okay, yeah. All right. Well, um, you know, I know that Blaze is looking down on you. And he’s very proud of his mom. You know, it was, I guess, you know, God takes the people that he wants to, in some way, shape or form when he wants to. And I think that, you know, it was, I think God was looking at Blaze and saying, I need you here. And, and blaze said, You know what, I’m coming. And you know, and that’s what happened. But again, you know, your, what the work that you’re doing is is a tribute to his memory. I think people are going to realize what kind of a boy he really really was, through your writings and through your books, etc. So, I think it’s wonderful. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with my audience? Before we go words of advice or words of wisdom?

Laura: Um, you Yeah. Okay. So I, I would say, one of the main messages of this book is that love, love does not die. Okay. So the physical form might go, but this, the spirit does not die, the which is, you know, pure love, love does not die. And so, I wanted to share this quote by Booker Washington. He was an advisor to many US presidents in the late 1800s, early 1900s. He said, one of his quotes was, if you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else. And I believe that, you know, as our new year’s resolutions are approaching, you know, January scummy, you know, I believe that it’s important to maybe realize that we can practice these small acts of kindness every day. Now, knowing the magnitude of these acts of kindness, so you never know, where these small acts of kindness can go, the domino effects that they can have, they may not mean much to you, but they can mean the world to someone else. So maybe as a New Year’s resolution, what we could do is remember this quote by by Booker Washington, if you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else. And it doesn’t have to be anything grandiose. You can start here right now from our homes, you know, anything that really is related to kindness, being kind of small acts of kindness can really change the world like it did with me.

Ari: Absolutely. Now if people want to get a hold of you, how can they do that? You have an email you have a website you have you know, how can they touch base with you?

Laura: Sure. My so my, my website is that Laura forming teeny that calm la ura fo r and e n t i.com I’m also on Instagram author Laura firming teeny. I’m also Facebook at author Laura for me teeny. And yeah, and I am starting my book tour in January book will be out January 11. It will be available on Amazon but also it’s going to be distributed to educational institutions like universities and libraries. It will be available at bookstores. So, you know, it’ll be pretty much everywhere in all formats, including audio book.

Ari: That’s awesome. Laura, I want to thank you so much for sharing your story with my audience. I’m sure you’ve touched the hearts of many in my audience. Good luck going forward. Keep up the good work. You know, I mean, you have what to be proud of. You been listening to whispers and bricks, and I’m your host, Avi. showman until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

Kim Curry What You Put Into The World Matters

Summary:

Kim Curry was a well-known radio personality with 33 years of experience in radio. When he was hit with a gigantic brick, he was diagnosed with MS. Together with his doctor, he learned how to manage and heal himself. Now he is a bestselling author and an MS advocate. He shares his incredible journey with us. He shares how he overcame the many bricks Kim faced when he was diagnosed and the whispers that kept him going. Best of all, he shares excellent advice for life.

Episode Transcription

Intro Plays

If you’re struggling in your career, business or life This podcast is for you. 911 survivor Ari schonbrunn shares inspiring interviews so you too can rise like a phoenix from the ashes to live your best life. Here’s your host, Ari.

Ari: Welcome to whispers and bricks. My name is Gary show and I’m your host I have with me today a special guest Kim curry. As a 33 year old as a 33 year radio broadcaster Kim Curry was forced into retirement after a diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis at the age of 50. Come get me mother was a two year writing education that doubled as therapy. Now he’s living in Loveland, Colorado with his wife and enjoying life. He’s a dedicated foodie who loves to cook. He’s an international soccer fan, a lifelong Denver Broncos fan. And Ms. advocate who makes the rounds at different men with MS meetings in northern Colorado. Writing is his new hobby. Please help me welcome Kim. Carrie. Ari, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

Kim: I’m honored that a guy like you would take the time to talk to a guy like me, because in reality, I would like to interview you. So well, maybe, well, maybe that’ll happen someday. You know, someday I should get that podcast thing going again. I told you about that used to do. There you go. There you go again, I’m gonna have you as a guest, but I would be honored to be here as yours. I would be honored to be on yours as well.

Ari: I think you’ve got an incredible story, but I’m not gonna let the cat out of the bag.

But, you know, so I will let let’s let’s get started. Now I’m going to start first of all, Kim, is it is an interesting name for a man. Especially if you’re not Korean. So, so it’s all valid points. Is it short for something? Are in my first name is Kimberly pay

Kim:. Now my mother, it’s a family last name. But that really wasn’t important to my mother. My mother always told me that it was a male version of Kimberly. But I’ve never met another man in my life named Kimbrel. So my mother fooled me years and years ago. Wow. Wow. That’s interesting. That’s really interesting. And I’ve never heard the name, Kimbrough. And I’ve heard of Kimberly and I know many Kim’s that are Kimberly’s, but I never heard a guy. Except for Kim Jong on.

Ari: I never heard of another Kim. Well, I’m actually the Latin name Kimbrel. There’s a baseball player. His last name is Kimbrel. Really, but he but that could be remember I said it was a family last name for me. So there may be a distant relative somewhere that I don’t know of. But it’s never been a first name. I’ve never met another so Wow. There we go. Wow. All right. Well, anyway, as you know, the name of the podcast is whispers in bricks. And the whispers are those voices telling us what the right thing to do is and they represent the good in life. And the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be real, everybody has a brick thrown at them at some point in time. The other sometimes it’s several bricks, sometimes it’s little bricks, sometimes it’s big bricks, but everybody goes through something. Now, prior to this recording, you and I had a chance to talk and get to know each other a little bit. And I learned that growing up, life was pretty good for you, and that you had some amazing opportunities. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I was a really lucky guy at the age of 17. My father who worked at the only radio station in my hometown, came home from work one day and asked me if I would babysit at the radio station for the general manager. Well, I thought he meant babysit the GMs kids because that’s how I made my money in high schools. I babysat parents, friends kids. Well, I get to the radio station come to find out he wanted me to babysit the Sunday morning God show in at this little town and this one radio station, they would record all the previous week’s church services and play them back on Sunday morning and nobody really wanted that job. And so it went to this high school kid, but you got to understand are you know, but first of all, none of my friends listened to it because it was my hometown station. We all listened to the Rock and Roll stations over in the other town. But But when I heard my voice for the first time, on a radio station, I can remember the first thing I said was, This is Carolyn Canyon City, Colorado, the station with a news reputation. And I heard that in my headphones and I was an immediate turn on I thought that’s my voice on the radio. And that’s all it took. I got stuck and had a 33 year radio station.

Kim: Where that start started there. So, wow, 33 years, that’s a long time. Well, in reality, you know, it could, I wish it would have gone a lot longer. But as as we talked about, that’s why we’re here is, uh, you know, I started at 17. And by the time I was 50, I’d had a really long and prosperous and successful career. Within the first six months of leaving college, I ended up in Miami, Florida working at one of the legendary radio stations of that you have that area’s top 46 months after I went to work for that guy. He got dismissed, and I went to work to work across the street at the number one radio station in Miami, Florida for top 40 radio at the time. These two people were very influential in my career, I worked for all for both of them.

But 98% of the time either as a program director, I Jerry Clifton had a bunch of radio stations around America eventually and I went to program for him. And Bill Tanner. He and I were always partners, and when he was the program director, I was his assistant program director. So these guys were really influential in my career I had, it was in Miami and San Antonio, Texas, in Washington, DC and Baltimore. In each of these towns I’m telling you about in my memoir, their stories in there about in San Antonio, we we had a promotion will resign the first woman to a professional football contract.

But I had an I had an MS exacerbation that I didn’t know what it was. I thought one day, my neighbor would had gone away on vacation, and I went to take the newspaper out of their their bushes and as I walked back, my hand was covered in fire ants. And I thought a week later I had it. Nothing happened to me immediately. But a week later, I started having this vision loss in my right eye and my hands started to curl and I started feeling very uncomfortable. I felt very foggy. And it just went away. These exacerbations happen in every town I lived in. These are Ms things that were lingering in my life that I didn’t know were coming. I didn’t know what they were in Washington DC. I had a really unique exacerbation, and it happened because of during my radio show at night. I was the kid they call me kid curry. So I had the nighttime radio show. So I appeal to high school kids. And that was the primary focus of my show. But in Washington, DC.

It was it because it’s so political. I had a feature at night, the last five minutes of my show, I’d have people call in. I called it Bed Check. And I’d let them call in and they could make comments about their school buddy or make a joke about their little brother, you know, dish on a on the teacher. But in Washington DC that feature became politically got taken over by politics. And it was really unique. I would, I would usually pick up the phone and hear little kids. But I pick up the phone there and I’d hear adults. And one of the adults I would hear in Washington DC was a guy by the name of Frank De framer, I pick up the phone, he’d say, Hey, it’s me, Frank, the framer, and I’m over here at the White House. And the President just heard your bed check. And he thinks you’re funny. And I thought the guy was just playing on me. So I’d laugh.

And I just, I’d move on to the next call. But Frank, the framer got through a few times and kept making the same joke and I and one night, I picked the phone up. And I said, Frank De framer, who are you? What are you talking about? He said, Well, it just so happens that at the White House, there is a person who is in charge of the frames of the portraits. And that’s me. They call me, Frank, the framer. I’m a Secret Service agent. I work here in the White House, and the President comes down a lot. And he’s heard your bed check. Well, I thought that was very cool. So as far as I knew there was this guy who’d made up this story. It sounded real, but it could have been made up about being the guy who was the framer at the White House. So I leave Washington, DC after a couple of a few months on the radio there and then I move up to Baltimore, Maryland. My girlfriend shows up with her grandma one day and we’re having dinner. And I happen to mention to Grandma this story about Frank defamer. She said, Well, if you know somebody at the White House, you got to take me there for a tour. Oops. So I had to make that phone call to the White House where i Hello. I need to speak to Frank De framer and the lady the other insist, Oh, Frank. Yeah, hang on. I get him.

Well, he must be real. So he picked up the phone. I told him my stories. If Frank, first of all, I’m amazed that you’re real. I need to come and bring my girlfriend’s grandma to it for a tour of the White House. So he says you know what, man, you come on over whenever you’re ready.

let these guys know you’re coming. So you just drive up and tell them you’re here to see Frank, the framer, I’ll let him know kid Curry’s coming. We’re all be excited to see you. And I was like, well, this will be fun. So, you know, this is just after the Reagan assassination attempt. And there had been no changes in security around the White House, you could still drive up, you could go down the street, and turn in to the road that looked like it went up to the side of the White House. So first of all, I went around once thinking that can’t be it.

To me, it looked like the right one to drive up. So I started driving up now, what you’ll learn well, those who have anyone who knows about MS. MS is a stress related disease, the more stress you’re under, sometimes the more the exacerbations that are going on in your brain are these are scars on your brain, they light up. So I’m driving up this road, which I just thought, well, it looks like it’s the right one. And as I’m driving up the road, here comes the Secret Service and they’re all pulling their guns on me. And they’re taking their rifles out and I keep driving because I’m thinking well, I’ll just tell him it’s kid curry. All the sudden, I lost total vision in my right eye. My hands curled in my shoulders went up, and I couldn’t even move my legs I had was all I could do to stop the car. And when I opened the car door I fell out. And these guys are coming all guns loaded. And I’m yelling it’s kid curry. I’m here to see Frank the frame are there like, Kid kid? Or are you can we get you a wheelchair?

The exacerbation waned I told him to get the wheelchair for grandma. And, and we went through the tour of the White House and it was a unique friendship I had with a guy by the name of Frank De framer. But that was another exacerbation that I had no clue what’s going on in my body. I didn’t know I had Ms. I just thought, well, you know the pressure of what’s going on just threw me off and but time goes by and I end up back in Miami.

And through a series of circumstances the two guys I told you about in the very beginning, Jerry Clifton and Bill Tanner ended up at this one radio station as consultants. Well, first bill was the morning show guy for a while, and then he left. And then he and Jerry teamed up as consultants through a series of circumstances. I went to Miami as the young radio boy that back when the song by The Eagles, the new kid in town came out. So I was the young, teenage DJ and then 1976 and then 1996 They finally thought they could give me the radio station. And let me run it and see what happens. I was fortunate in that. I was given a staff of very talented people who I grown up with a bunch of them. Uh, we knew Miami very well. I just had a different approach. I really thought you could do top 40 radio in Spanglish in Miami. It had been done in Spanglish on Spanish stations. But there was never a top 40 station that really went at the market, playing top 40 songs and speaking Spanglish and then trying to lean on finding songs that would cross over from Spanish to English. And if we didn’t have the right one, we would make them we made an English version in my office, it was my idea of an English version of the Maka Raina, if anybody’s ever heard there is there was an English version that we produced in my office because we really were going after the Miami audience and I felt I had the right way to do it. I’ve been there long enough to know the influence of the Cuban market. And, and and I and everybody was Spanglish anyway, why couldn’t you play top 40 music and be Spanglish? Well, it just so happens that created the highest ratings in the history of the station. We went nine years with incredible ratings.

But because of the type A personality I am in this in the seriousness I took of my job, it’s almost like I was doing nine years of constant stress on the MS and I was having exacerbations again, not knowing why I couldn’t get out of bed. I just call it and say I’m not coming in today.

And then right around the time of this tsunami, there was a the tsunami happened around 2000. Somewhere in 2004 there was a tsunami somewhere we saw it on TV, I was home with with my brought my wife my family home during the holidays, and we were watching some of these things go on TV because my mother was very interested in the tsunami in general had no idea so we were watching a PBS show. And and while I was watching it, she says to me, there’s something wrong with you. Your eyes are going crazy. What’s What’s the matter and I think what was happening was I was so in intently watching the PBS thing on the tsunami that my body gave out again and I was having an exacerbation my mom insisted I go back to Miami and get with a doctor

Three months after that, I was finally diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Now, the way that diagnosis happened, the way I got out of the business was like this. First of all, not only was my could she see my eyes weren’t functioning correctly, she could see I was weak in my arms and I wasn’t walking straight, that really took and Winix and accelerated over the next three or four months. So as I was being treated, or they were testing me for multiple sclerosis, I was in the midst of a non stop exacerbation. And it scared me It scared my wife, I suddenly couldn’t walk across the parking lot at work. I couldn’t walk down the hallways at bang off the side of the hall, the hallways, and and then So finally, I was over to corporate meeting, you know, our corporate office was in Naples. And Miami, of course, is where my radio station was. But I was over in Naples at a corporate meeting. Around five o’clock in the afternoon, my doctor called my cell phone. So I left the corporate meeting with all the geniuses went into a room and she said, Mr. Curry, I know you have multiple sclerosis. I can see it right here. I everything we see, says multiple sclerosis in urine and exacerbation, and we need to see you on Monday, so we can decide your next steps. So that was fabulous afternoon, then yes, Monday. That must have been, oh, well, that must have been one heck of a brick that you got to hit with. You know,

I can tell you that as I was driving back that night that once again, I’d never knew what even MS was. So as I’m driving back to Miami, it was I’m calling my wife and she’s doing the 2005 version of Google. And she’s reading about Multiple Sclerosis. And I didn’t know you could die from Ms. And I knew how bad I was getting. I knew that the months prior to where I was sitting at that moment, things were really bad. So on Monday morning, I walked into my GM and said, I’m done. I’ve been diagnosed with MS. I gotta get out of here. Something’s really wrong with me. And I need to stop now. So my brick hit me.

Ari:     And then I stopped because I knew something was really going on. And how old were you at that point? 50 years old. It was 50 years old. 1005. So So you had a career you were on top of the worlds?

And then bam, you get hit? How did you? How did you deal with that? Well,

Kim: are you know, being being first of all, I was lucky at a very young age to be the nighttime DJ on one of the most famous radio stations in America, in Miami, Florida. So you got to think that 1976 It was there was not the internet. So you had you know, one or two top 40 radio stations to listen to. And they just so happens the one that I was on in Miami was a superior it was the first radio station to give away $50,000 in cash and did it like eight times in a row. When I was in college, we used to study this radio station when I was in college. It was it was unlike any station have ever heard of. And because it had a real Miami feel unlike any station, anywhere else in America, industrialized, W ABC and all the big Abc New York stations. They were industrialized, where you could hear echo and reverb and their sound. Well, none of that happened in Miami. It was on the FM dial and it was clean. And it was we did theater of the mind radio where the boss wouldn’t mind if we stopped for five minutes and put on a radio play as long as it was funny. And so it was unlike any station we that I’ve ever been in, I was very fortunate to be sitting in a situation at that time and working with these people. And so I

when you’re that guy, and then suddenly you leave that radio station and people are trying to get close to kid curry my entire career. So then you know when your programming power 96 in Miami is as big as programming the biggest station in LA. So people always wanted to be close to me, but after my diagnosis.

Remember I’m bouncing off walls, I’m not talking, I’m not walking straight. I’m not a cane. And then I went to crutches. Then I ended up in a wheelchair, and nobody wants to be close to the guy in the wheelchair. And when I left Miami, it bothered my wife more than it bothered me because I wanted the radio station to go on and move forward past me. But nobody really checked on me. I mean, I’d had a career with friends for 33 years some I’ve known forever, and nobody called to find out if I was okay. So it was a real mess.

Mental mess for a long time. And physically, I was deteriorating rapidly. So it was a scary eight years.

And then, at that point already, you know, my doctor was really, there was only four or five medicines and 19. Sorry, in 2005, when I first got diagnosed, there was only four or five ms medicines. Eight years later, there’s now eight ms medicines. And the doctor said, We’ve got to change something, man, because you are going down fast. And I was. So we changed the medicine. And then the doctor said something that that is very controversial. And you and I’ve had this discussion. But there’s all sorts of reams of information that says that vitamin D is is is good for you. So my doctor was telling me that you were going to change your medicine. And I want you to take at least 330 1000 I use of vitamin D every day. Well, I am an old radio DJ. And I used to make fun of my mother when I put her on the radio and she’d have a cold and she’d say, Oh, you got to make sure you take your vitamin C and

vitamins do nothing. So it took it took six months for me while not for me to be convinced. My wife convinced me that I needed to take this vitamin D. So I made the change of the medicine. Six months later, I start taking these massive, I use doses of vitamin D, and six months after that my condition leveled off. Strikingly, my wife could immediately notice that my thoughts were clear again, that my hands, they still curl, but they don’t curl as much as they used to my voice which had been completely taken away with MS, there’s a condition that happens in the throat. And I my voice began to came back. And so for the next three or four years, I go from this terrible, terrible, terrible, I go from a terrible decline to suddenly everything just leveled off. And that was a mental problem. Because then I’m like, Well, wait a minute, I’m not gonna die. What am I gonna do? I mean, I can’t, I can’t, I was pretty sick. And then suddenly, three years after this medicine change, things had gone pretty consistently nowhere. And so if I’m not going to die, what do I do now. And that’s when I had the thought that I wanted to write my story. That’s when I thought, You know what, I will write this story, I will write my memoir, I’ll write the stories of my radio career. And that’s what my memoir is full of all the stories of the, the, I get to Miami a week after and there I’ve had breakfast with Marilyn McCoo. And Billy Davis of the fifth dimension. My radio interview was with Bob Hope. You remember Muhammad Ali was still training at the Fifth Street gym. So he would be in and out of the radio station. I went from a small little town in Colorado, where there was one radio station to a station that had it was Hollywood. And you know, it was very exciting as a young kid is a very good career to have. But, you know, things changed. And I wanted to write this whole story. So I wrote the story of the markets I was in the fun I had with the people I was working with. And then I wanted to tell the story of my multiple sclerosis diagnosis and how I dealt with that mentally.

And, and then, if as you read this story, you realize my path of it. It’s it’s expensive to be disabled in America. I didn’t know that until I became disabled, it costs to be disabled in America. And that’s in my book, you hear that you read that process, and the what, but what really, the story that I the part of story I really like is the story about my wife, which we’ll get into that in a moment. And there was a point when a friend of mine, after I said, I had three years of really no increase of my condition, and things have leveled off. An old friend of the radio business, kind of

he picked me up out of nowhere. I hadn’t spoken to anybody since I, I left the business. This guy and I traded phone calls or emails once a year because of our birthdays. His is April 1 minds April 20. So that would be a weed once a year, maybe we’d maybe every other year with email or something for birthdays. But this guy eventually when he just decided I got a call one day and he says listen, he is responsible for you know, you see the Grammys, everybody sees the Grammys, but those people wouldn’t get those awards if wasn’t for the promoters who get the songs on the radio stations in America. So my friend Vince, would it his magazine, the street information magazine, network Magazine.

They had a big ceremony every year where they gave awards to these record promoters for forgetting the Taylor Swift song, the Grammy for getting, you know, whitecliff, Shawn and Grammy. So he would have this ceremony and give these guys these awards. This is in the business, this is not for people. And it became a very big ceremony. And one day I got a call and he said, Listen, I want to fly you out here to New York with your family, I want you to come to the information awards. And I want to give you a lifetime achievement award, which thrilled me because I had, I had no, I had been completely ripped out of my life of show business. And then suddenly, a friend of mine said, Wait a minute, man, I want you to come and see your friends again. So I get out to New York, I see him before the ceremony, he’s all dressed up in this big wool coat. And he’s got a hat on a scarf. And we just see each other just prior to like to thank him for flying me out, because he’s the host of this big thing that’s going on this award ceremony. So he goes off and does the awards gets me on stage. I mean, I can’t tell you the superstar who actually picked me up in my wheelchair and put me on the stage. But there were superstars that were rock and roll artists that were promoters. I saw friends, I hadn’t seen my entire 33 year radio career at that ceremony, and they gave me the award and I cried like a baby to see my friends again, it really felt good. So Vince sees me after the award ceremony says we have to have breakfast tomorrow, I’ll see you over the hotel. And then Vince shows up the next day. And he says, Well, the reason I had you here is because I’m dying. And it just felt good for me to do this for you to bring you up and and have let you see your friends again. And then he told me so man, you can’t sit around, you got to come back and do something. I thought maybe I could get back in the radio, business music business. It had been, what, eight 910 years. That was out of it. There’s no way I could help anybody there. But that’s when I decided I wanted to write my story, which is where my memoir came from.

It was a that too, was a fun learning process of being a DJ is not the same thing as writing a story on paper. So I had to hire a coach, I hired a lady to teach me how to write.

And then once I got finished with my memoir, I continued writing, I’ve got another book out, that’s the second one over there. And my third book will be released here within the next month or so, a best selling author has read this book and is backing the book because he likes the story. So I’m I’m now I’ve gone from being a radio DJ to being a writer, I come in my office every day I sit here almost every day, it’s great therapy are a you know, you wrote a book, I heard I heard the tale of how you eventually got the book written. But but you know, that was therapeutic. Absolutely. And, and for a guy like you with what you’ve had to experience in your life, that, that process for you to actually get it down. I know what it’s like for me, but to go with what you’ve gone through.

remarkable, remarkable work, my friend, dang, I’ve read some of your stuff and seen some of your interviews. And what I do is nothing compared to what you’ve had to go through. But I appreciate stories to tell I appreciate the kind words, but I’m going to have to disagree with you.

Ari: You know, I just you know, you’ve got MS and debilitating disease. And you know, it’s just what you’ve done is remarkable. You know, the fact that you were able to overcome, whether it was you know, medicine or whether it was God or whatever it was, but you were able to overcome and you didn’t crawl up and you know, get into bed club, like a ball and just say you know, I’m done. Alright, you’re not that kind of a person, you can’t do that. You understood that you had things to do, and you had people to touch. And I find it fascinating, you know, what you’ve accomplished and all the things that you’ve done. You know, since since being diagnosed with MS. I mean, you know, I just it’s amazing. Now, let me ask you something.

Kim: As far as your books are concerned, first of all, what are the titles of your books? Okay. My memoir is called come get me mother. I’m through which was that was the closing line of that little feature I used to do at the end of my radio show where Frank De framer used to call in when I was finished, because I had I was a very young sounding kid and I was the nighttime DJ. I just say, come get me mother. I’m through and that was the end of my radio show. So that’s what I named my memoir, my second book there which is next to a white

cover there is a short story called The death of fairness, its concerns what happened to a small American town. And it’s only radio station, after the rescinding of the Fairness Doctrine. When Ronald Reagan vetoed the fairness and Broadcasting Act of 1987, many people believe that’s the beginning of the division we have in America. My third book, you know, what I did, is I took that second book, and I sent it off to one of these because everybody’s looking for content these days in Hollywood. And I sent it off to a company who evaluated the story. They said, it was a really good story, it just was not in depth. That was a short story. Well, I took the idea to get into more depth, and that’s what brought the third book. It’s called Bonnie’s law, the return to fairness. Now, the third book I’ve got there is my doctor’s book, my doctor, Dr. Alan bowling, who was the one who changed my life, when he told me to take vitamins, which I still find to be really funny. But I believe that changing of the medicine, and the intense vitamin D intake is what fixed my multiple sclerosis decline. And so his book, optimal health with multiple sclerosis is that book over there. I’m a big proponent of at least what he does, he wants you to look at every alternative. Yes, there are ways you can’t just take drugs to get over multiple sclerosis, you can’t just take drugs to get over anything. You’ve got to take drugs, if that’s what they have for you. And then you’ve got to get your mind right, you’ve got to decide that you’re not going to let this thing beat you up every day, that you’re here for a reason. And in for my reason is my wife. I’ve been married a few times was more than 20 years ago, when I just happened to run into a woman when I was working one night, and 21 years later, I can tell you that

we’re after I got diagnosed. And on that drive back to Miami from Naples, my wife and I bonded on that 130 Well, actually three hour conversation. And when I went home, and I came home, and I saw her after I was diagnosed, I looked at a different woman. I looked at a woman who says, Well, if this is what’s going to happen, then we’re just going to figure out how to deal with it. And we’re going to do everything we can we’ll get you the right doctors, we will get you the right equipment, we will get you the most important medicines, we’ll do everything we can to get you through this. And so that’s where my power comes from is the relationship I have with my wife.

Kim: When we after I got diagnosed and we cashed in in Miami and I, the only thing I could think to do, Ari was to move back home. My mom was still in my hometown. She’s still alive. But she’s in my hometown. And I thought, well, if I’m going to start to fail, then at least I’ll have friends around me guys went to high school who can help me out. And so I went home. We took all the money I had, we started investing in houses and doing the fix and flip thing. My wife was not impressed with the way she was being treated by real estate agents. So she decided she was going to go get a real estate license. And then two years later, she was breaking records per capita in the state of Colorado in real estate, selling hundreds of houses in a very small little town, basically controlled the real estate market in that town. And then her company liked what she was doing so much. They brought her into a consultancy. So my wife is now a real estate consultant internationally. Wow. If you don’t sell 100 houses, you can’t talk to my wife. Wow. So the woman who was on my arm at the Grammys every year when we were just starting our life after the diagnosis turned into a very, very strong, powerful woman.

I wouldn’t have married her if I didn’t think I was going to get that. But man she has superseded anything I ever expected. And I I live for that because we have a really good life. I have four children. We have one stone house much like you I bet a 17 year old she’s going to be 18 next month and she’ll be graduating next June.

Kim: So next month, next June she she got a birthday she’ll be 18 next month and she graduated when when’s her birthday? She’s the 18th I’ve got two kids with December she’s December 80 Because my son’s turning 18 December 23 My mother’s birthdays are begun in December my family my other daughters December 3 And my mother’s December 20 So we got a whole family in there so yeah there we go birthdays for you so you got your missions on on another kid getting through all this and torture he must have had to go through yeah relationship you must have now

with him. So I’m I, I’m in awe of what you’ve had to do, please, please don’t be at all.

Okay, great. So

Ari: it’s an incredible story. You know, I was so moved with your story. I, my hat’s off to you going through what you went through getting past that, you know, listening to whispers that brought you, you know, that brought you back literally brought you back.

And before we go, is there any any words of wisdom that you like to impart to my audience?

Kim: No, I’m a I’m, I’m spiritual without religion. We are a very, very tight family here, a very positive family who helps whenever we can. In fact, all the proceeds of both my books continue to go to the MS foundation in the Heart Association.

We are givers, I believe that you have to open your heart. As I always told my children when they were growing up, life is a bouncing ball. If you bounce good things down, good things will come back. But if you bounce bad things down, bad things will come back. And that’s how I taught my children. And to me, that’s really as easy as it gets. If you give good, you’ll get good. But you’ve got to really find good, because some people think they’re finding good, but they’re not. You’ve got to be true to yourself and to your surroundings. And bounce that ball down good because it will come back good. 

Ari: Definitely words of inspiration. Definitely. Beautiful, beautiful words. 

Last but not least, well, two things. One, how can people get your book?

Kim: Thank you. Um, I have a website KR curry.com K, R curry, cu RR y.com. All the information on my books are there. In fact, information on my upcoming book is up there too. I also blog I tell stories and things that didn’t make it into the memoir. As a matter of fact, I’m writing a story right now that’s going to be up soon, about my brush with greatness with Terry Bradshaw, which turned into brush with greatness with Joe DiMaggio. Wow, crazy. But that’ll be on my website. Soon. I tell little stories, things that I didn’t get in the memoir. Well, a lot of things made it on the cutting floor. So that’s where you can find me KR currie.com. And if they want to get in touch with you, I guess there’s a link in touch with you email. 

Ari: Yes. Wonderful. Wonderful. Kim. Thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. I’m sure that many people in my audience have been inspired. I’m sure there are people with MS that are listening. And, you know, and I think you’ve given hope you’ve definitely definitely given hope. I’m hoping that they will reach out to you for some, whether it’s for inspiration or comfort or just to schmooze. Alright, that’s good. Absolutely. Good luck going forward. Good luck with the books. I’m so glad that our paths have crossed. It’s been wonderful. Thank you so much. You’ve been listening to us prison bricks, and I’m your host Gary Shogun. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the breaks, and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

 

Naomi Murphy Live Authentically

Summary:

Naomi is a clinical and forensic psychologist who has over 25 years of experience. She currently works with prisoners to help them work them. Naomi discusses the whispers that led her to her career and some bricks she has faced. Most of all, she shares how to deal with difficult times at any job, and she stays grounded. She reminds us how important it is to live authentically and to have empathy.

Episode Transcription

Intro Plays

Ari: Welcome to Wisdom bricks. My name is Gary Schoenberg, and I’m your host. My guest today is Dr. Naomi Murphy. She’s a consultant, clinical and forensic psychologist with over 25 years of experience of working with people in the criminal justice system in the UK. She has worked with men and women in secure hospitals where she jointly developed a specialist service for people with a history of complex trauma. diagnosed as personality disorders. With Dez McVeigh. They then jointly started the first mental health inreach team in an English prison. And 18 years ago, were recruited to develop a specialist treatment unit for men who were considered to be quote unquote, untreatable psychopaths, within a high secure prison as part of the controversial, dangerous and severe personality disorder project. At its inception, this ladder treatment program was the only one in the UK to emphasize the resolution of the printed prisoners own trauma before addressing their offending behavior. Also uniquely for the English prison system this unit has is primarily sexually violent offenders, alongside those whose violence does not include a sexual offense working in groups together. Additionally, all the men who entered the project also received five years of individual therapy as well as group treatment, which was also unusual for the English prison system. All of the men are a serious management problem into the prison system, and several have killed while in prison. Naomi is co author of treating personality disorder, creating robust services for clients with complex mental health needs, and honorary professor of psychology at Nottingham Trent University. She’s also co host of locked up living podcast, a podcast that explores barriers to wellbeing in harsh environments and ways to overcome these alongside for us that alongside forensic practice, Naomi has a small private practice working with high fliers to optimize their success across all areas of their lives. She’s an accredited sensory motor psychotherapist, say that three times fast and emphasizes living life with authenticity by engaging with emotions associated with vulnerabilities such as fear, sadness, and shame. This has been highly relevant to both branches of our work. Please help me welcome Niomi Murphy. Naomi, how are you?

Naomi: I’m good. Thank you. Thanks very much for inviting me on.

Ari: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Boy, that was a mouthful, let me tell you. So as you know, the name of this podcast is was for some bricks and the whispers of those voices telling you what the right thing to do is and represent the good in life and the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And we all know that life is not a straight line. There are many ups and downs and many bumps in the road and you have all people know know a lot about this area. But let’s start from the beginning a little bit. So from what our from our conversations before the podcast, you mentioned your dad was in the Air Force, and that you moved around a lot. Tell us about what that was like.

Naomi: Yeah, that’s right. Until I went to university I only really ever lived in it the longest I’ve ever lived in one place for three years and that was unusual. Most places I’ve lived for one or two years and I really didn’t like I didn’t enjoy that at all. It’s like you didn’t know sooner put down roots form friendships and then either you would be moving or they would be moving so it was very disruptive. I you know, lucky that I’ve very stable family background to help offset that. But actually it’s not it’s not a great lifestyle for children that constantly moving and having having to change having the wrong accent having the wrong version of the school uniform. The wrong tastes because they change from place to place.

Ari: Wow. Wow. Now, you mentioned you were the first in your family go to university and correct Wow. And you majored in psychology. Correct. And my my understanding is you took to you took to that like fish like like a fish takes to water. Tell us a little bit about you know what, what, you know, what possessed you to to go into psychology. You know why? Why that fields?

Naomi: It’s a good question Ra. So I applied to do history everywhere except for one place because I loved history. And I plan to do psychology as kind of a backup option. And then I thought, I don’t really want to be a teacher and come from a very working class background, I had very limited sense of what you could do with a degree once you qualified. And the only reason I’d applied to do psychology was a bit of a fluke, my dad was doing a course in psychology. A basic course in psychology. And I was intrigued by some of the experiments that I was, he would tell me about that he’d had studied about. And so I applied for that as a, as a bit of a rogue wildcard, and then decided I didn’t want to be a history teacher, which meant I need to just opt for the opt for the psychology. So I actually turned down a place at a very good university and went to a very, to a much less prestigious university, because I hadn’t realized how easy it was to change subjects, which again, I think, you know, as a working class person not knowing much about university, I hadn’t appreciated that I could have done that in a prestigious university. But it’s all works out, you know, worked out? Well.

Ari: You know, it’s interesting, because, you know, every time I talk to a guest, it always it always comes back to a certain part in my life, certain things that happens comes back to a certain part in my life. And I guess that’s why I enjoy doing this so much. But my daughter was, went to medical school. And in the States after he finished medical school, you have to do a residency program, you have to work in a hospital. And the way they figure out who’s going to be in what hospital, I mean, you you go, the students go and interview different hospitals where they’d like to like to do their residency. And then they rank the hospitals in order of you know, where they like to go. And likewise, the hospitals rank the students as well. And my daughter had, you know, put her rankings in and then right before, right before she actually submitted the ranking, she got a call from a hospital that was a second tier hospital, but they loved her so much, they called her up, and they said, we’d love to have you and, you know, we hope you’ll rank us, you know, the whole nine yards. And my daughter felt so guilty, because she hadn’t ranked them that she ranked them. And she ranked them like really low down. And then when the match came through, it turns out, that’s where she matched. And for what she wanted to do, it was a it was not a good hospital, and she was miserable. She goes, I could have gone to this, I could have gone to that I could have, you know, if I wouldn’t have put them down. And I said to you know, honey, you’d never know what God has in store for you. And it turns out that she’s now working at that hospital, she did a residency, she’s now working at that hospital, they love her, she loves them. And she’s got a great career. So, you know, it’s kind of like, you know, you could have gone to a better a better university, but you never know why. You know, it was this one, you know, absolutely. So we never know. And I know that you you were growing up you were you were devout Catholic, correct.

Naomi: My My parents are both devout Catholics. So certainly I was raised a Catholic and went to church also. And actually, the the religious beliefs were were important. I think in giving me a strong, my parents both have a very strong sense of right and wrong.

Ari: Exactly. So that’s what I’m saying. So you know, God had a plan for you. All right. That’s a chapter yet. That’s what you have to understand. Wow. So you wound up? After you got your degree you wound up in prisons and hospitals? Where did that come from? I mean, what was the what what were you thinking?

Naomi: Well, yeah, good question. I think the things I was always really interested in when I was doing my undergraduate degree in psychology were the the more abnormal elements of experience and trying to understand why people presented as with mental illness, and doing things that seem on the face of it to be a little bit crazy and hard to understand. So I was I was really interested in that very curious. And I love to make meaning out of things. I do like an intellectual challenge of trying to make sense of something that doesn’t seem seem too sensible. And then after I, after I graduated, a job came up for a psychologist in a local prison. And to me and all I thought, well, here’s your opportunity to learn more about behavior that seems to be nonsensical on the face that and went there to work. But when I was there, I realized very quickly, that the all of the people I encountered has had very, very difficult upbringings. And training as a forensic psychologist in the UK didn’t really certainly at that time didn’t prepare you for that at all. And so I then applied to train as a clinical psychologist thinking, you know, people who end up committing all sorts of atrocious acts really have, you know, they need therapeutic work, they don’t need to be taught the facts about what right and wrong is that everybody knows it’s wrong to rape, everyone knows it’s wrong to kill. Fundamentally, it’s an emotional need that is driving this kind of kind of behavior. So when I’m trained as a clinical psychologist, and then, yeah, I’ve just always been drawn to the more challenging client groups, because I like that I like the challenge. I thrive on that. And, yeah, as I say, I really like to make meaning and try and understand things and people, you know, people’s behavior is always understandable, if you look hard enough for all the pieces.

Ari: Were you ever you know, being in a prison or whatever. And as I read in your bio there, you know, people that were actually murdered people in prison, whatever we ever we ever scare you ever nervous about, you know, for your own safety for your own well being?

Naomi: Absolutely. I think one of those strange things about prisons is that staff often say that they’re not scared. And I think that’s just a total disconnect. If you if you believe that you’re not frightened, and you’re in prison, and you’re surrounded by people who’ve committed really serious acts of violence, the only reason prisons work is because the prisoners choose to behave themselves. And we see a lot of American prisons on TV over in the UK. And you can literally smell the fear coming out of the TV set with the prison officers huddled together, having very few interactions. And I remember one time in the unit that I worked in, there was a prisoner being taken to segregation unit. And so there was a big team of staff that had come to remove him and take him down there, because he’d been aggressive. And the staff were wearing crash helmets, they had the full riot gear on the head shields their buttons, you know, basically, come back here, and we set the stuff, you know, he obviously he’s behaving in a way that’s really scary, you’re obviously frightened, and they’re like, No, we’re not scared. It’s like, if you’re not scared, why are you wearing a crush on that and carrying a shield and a baton? And, you know, think, you know, the reality of the situation is we we use safety behaviors to make ourselves not feel scared. It’s like when you cross the road, people say, I’m not scared across the road, that’s not a problem when you’re ready, not scared, because you’re looking left and right, you wouldn’t just step out across the road. So I have been scared. You know, I, I’ve never been assaulted. And it’s very rare for a psychologist to get assaulted. Thank God says, Yeah, because I think they the people that we work with, appreciate that you’re trying to offer them so they don’t always see you as being helpful. But they do. I think there’s a sense of you are trying to build a relationship with them, you’re trying to do right by them. And so it’s very unusual for a psychologist to get assaulted, but I have seen violence in prison. And of course, I have sat down with some of the people who are most scary or not, it’s not because they’re physically threatening you I want sat in a group where there was a it was a group full of very angry men, who were being very denigrating of me I’m one of them referred to me as a black widow spider, but the disdain and contempt was just dripping off his tongue. That actually really gave me the heebie jeebies, you know, I could feel my shiver down my spine, and yet he wasn’t threatening me. But there was something about him that was full of menace. So anyone who says anyone who works in prison who says they’re not frightened is not being honest. With themselves. Yeah.

Ari: So let me ask you, how do you preserve your own wholesomeness when steeped in the in the darker aspects of human nature?

Naomi:  That is such a great question. Um, a really important one, I think, because I think a lot of people don’t prioritize that. I think it is really important. I’ve worked out that you know, for me, it’s important to be kind and compassionate. And I think what helps with the wholesomeness is being able to understand that if you can make the meaning out of a situation, you can not take things personally. And you can understand why somebody is behaving in a way that’s distorted. You know, when you hear the histories of the of the men that I’ve worked with such brutality during their childhoods, that you can easily see how they’ve grown up to be very angry men. But you have to I think you have to work hard to be compassionate. And if you’re not, I think you lose, not only do you end up being punitive towards the people that you’re working with, but you lose something of yourself, within that I pride myself on still being quite wholesome, and still, you know, being able to be generous, spirited and kind because, to me those values is a really, really important and if I start feeling vengeful or vindictive or spiteful those kinds of is obviously those feelings, copper pin everybody occasionally. But for me, it’s really important that that isn’t the dominant kind of feeling that I hold.

Ari: Well, that’ll bring me to my next question. How do you prevent your own traumatization? When listening to accounts of trauma by the, you know, by your clients?

Naomi: Again, another brilliant question, because lots of people who work with people in prison do end up traumatized hearing that, you know, either because you’ve heard about the horrific crimes that they’ve committed in detail, or because you’ve heard about the brutality that they’ve experienced during childhood. And sometimes it’s you despairing out the depths to which people will plummet, you know, some of the things that people will do. But I think what helps preserve your own well being as obviously have clinical supervision as a psychologist, but there’s something about being emotionally authentic, you know, we have emotions for a reason, where we have all of the, you know, fear, sadness, shame, all of those feelings. That’s part of the human experience. And the projects within which I was working for many years. So in a high secure prison, where it’s taboo to talk about fear, but we would, I was the most senior psychologist there. So I’d role model talking about feeling frightened, because I’m frightened doesn’t mean I’m not going to take action. In fact, you can’t be brave if you’re not frightened, right? Yeah. So. So actually, I would go and have conversations with people who were being very aggressive and very hostile. But I would say, you know, actually, the way you’re behaving right now is leaving me feeling frightened. But I’m not, I’m not going to walk away, we need to find a way to resolve this. And I also felt really sad at work, I’ve cried at work on many occasions. And I think if you’re working with people who have very limited ability to regulate their emotions, what better way to show that emotions are not to be frightened off. If if you can role model that you can, you can be any of these states of emotionality, and you can manage it, and nothing disastrous is going to happen, you’re not going to fall apart, you know, that you can be frightened, you can be sad, you can feel ashamed, you can talk about all of these things. But it also means you don’t have to take it away at the end of the day, you know, I if somebody humiliates me at work, and I talk about feeling humiliated, I’m sad that I’ve been humiliated and hurt by somebody I’m trying to care for. I don’t have to go home and then have a drink or pick an argument with my partner, because it’s all been processed. While I’ve been at work, people or the staff will respond and be supportive. Quite often, the prisoners, people in prison don’t appreciate how for they feel very disempowered. So when they’re shouting and being abusive, they don’t recognize that they’re being scary. And actually, when you say, actually, what you’re showing me is really frightening, right now, it takes them aback, and they’re a bit shocked, because they feel very, very small and insignificant in the system. So having that kind of feedback allows them to think a little bit differently about the situation and realize that actually, they can be quite scary on occasion. Wow.

Ari: So at any point in at any point in your life, you know, this has to take a toll. Alright, the type of work that you do has to take a toll on you. Did you ever reach get to a point in life where where you just said to yourself, you know what, I just can’t do this anymore. I’m out, I’m quitting. You know, I have a dream to help the world. But you know, I just can’t do it. And you know, you curl up into a ball and get into bed, you know, and hang out there. And if you ever did reach that level, how did you manage to get yourself out of it?

Naomi: I can’t say that the working with the people that I provide therapy to has ever had that effect on me at big organizations institutions have on occasion, because you see also as part of these organizations, you see misuse of power. You know, that’s very common in big organizations and people not not holding themselves accountable, not taking responsibility, looking the other way. We see punitive nurse, all of these things, and they’re all things that, for me are important to call out. And that can mean that you’re in conflict with your employer on occasion or big organizations. And that can be brutal, I would say. Not, you know, the work with the people that are incarcerated. I understand that and I understand why they’re, why they’re like that. But I think in terms of preservation of myself during those times, I do a lot of yoga. I also run I practice breathing and mindful over cliched cycles. Just stuff I’m afraid, you know, getting out into nature for long walks, all of those. So you know, the movement, the breathing, all of these kinds of things. I just think really feed your senses. And then also I’m really into bio neurofeedback, which is a form of kind of like brain training, which again, I think really helps with stress so, and comedy, having watching comedy, and engaging in things that make you laugh, because actually, you know, I love to go to the Edinburgh Festival each year, which will be a recorded Comedy Festival. And I only go for a long weekend. But I feel like I’ve had a two week holiday by the end, because I’ve just spent so much of the weekend laughing. And that produces a total different emotional state within you.

Ari: Sure, for sure. Now, let me ask you up. Are your parents still alive?

Naomi: They say yeah, they’re both alive and in good health. Thank goodness.

Ari: Oh, great. So let me ask you, what, what, what’s, what did they think when when you when you decided to go into psychology and more. So when you decided to go into the prison world? You know, what were they thinking with a nervous Were they supportive? What was going on?

Naomi:  I don’t think they I think in terms of studying psychology, they were supportive of that. And they didn’t want me to work in a prison. And in fact, my mum had hidden the newspaper with the advert in for that very first job that I had in prisons, and I just happen to find it. I don’t know how it is, I mean, fate. Yeah, we’re talking about God’s plan. And I just happened to find that advert. And I said, I’ve said to my mum, but why, you know, you knew that I was looking for jobs as a as an assistant psychologist, and she was like, I really do want you to work in a, in a prison, you know, it’s, you know, those places are dangerous. And I try not to do much about the kind of work that I do. Because I think if you’re not there, it can create a bigger sense of fear, you know, people’s idea of working in a prison is that there’s gonna be an officer with you at all times. And actually, that’s that we are therapy was not with officers, they were outside the room. So I try not to talk too much in detail. But I could Yeah, certainly, I don’t think that’s the job my parents would have liked me to do. But I know that my parents are proud of me first standing up for what’s right. On occasion, I may understand the need to be compassionate and empathic, the people. So yeah, it comes with mixed feelings for them, I think for sure,

Ari: for sure. But I know they’re proud of you, I really do. Now, who is the one person that you would point to that you would say had the most influence in your life?

Naomi: And why? Well, I have, I’d have to say, my parents because of giving me that sense of being loved and cared for as a child, but also, both my parents have this real strong sense of what’s right doing what’s right. And that it’s, it’s more important to do what’s right than it is to be liked. And I’ve grown up with that same sense of you know, that I will, I will do what’s right, even if it’s gonna make me unpopular, and I was fortunate enough to meet does McVeigh is the co author with me of treating personality disorder, and we’ve worked together over many 25 years, more or less. And we have a very similar approach. That’s not to say we have massive bust ups at times. In fact, those around us will feel quite irritated by how can you have this crazy disagreement, disagreement, there’s heated debate. But that’s, I think that’s what makes the working relationship so good is the fact that we’ve got a very similar attitude and philosophy. But actually, we do disagree on stuff and therefore we are able to thrash things out and find a way a creative way forward. From that. Well,

Ari: wow, All right, last but not least, okay, well, actually, there are two things. One is you have any words of wisdom for my audience, there are people out there and I know I have psychologists out there it probably in different in different scenarios and and you know, different work environments, etc. But, you know, just in general, any anything any any thoughts you would want to share with the audience any words of wisdom?

Naomi:  Well, obviously, I’ve I think I’ve you know, for the sake of sounding a bit tired. The people always making sense I think is really important. Now, I don’t believe anybody’s born bad and they ought their people always make sense. But I think importantly for individuals is to be authentic and to appreciate that life you, you know, the pain, the pleasure, pleasure, pain principle, that actually we need the pain in order to feel the pleasure and we grow from things that are painful. As much as we grow from things that are pleasurable, so rather than avoiding and running away from those emotions that that, that make us feel vulnerable, embrace them and, and help realize that those are the emotions that can help us really grow. Which I think is the important theme of your podcast, right? Absolutely. whispers of whispers

Ari: and bricks, yeah. whispers works. Absolutely. 100%. Now, if people want to get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to do that? You have like a website? Do you have an email address? Or, you know if people want to talk to you or?

Naomi: Absolutely, so I’m very active on Twitter. I love Twitter, and I’m on there as an M psychologist

against EDS and as a Nancy M as in Mary psychologist.

Yeah, yeah. Naomi, and for Naomi and for Murphy psychologist, or you can email me at Naomi murphy@protonmail.com. And my private practice is through octopus psychology.com.

Ari: Okay, great. That’s awesome. That is That is so awesome. Now, me, thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. You know, good luck going forward. You’re doing really, really important work. It’s the type of work that not everybody would want to do. But it’s so necessary and so important, and I wish you all the best going forward. You’ve been listening to whispers and bricks, and I’m your host Gary Shaman. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.