Chris Vane Rock Bottom Is A Great Starting Point



Chris Vane is the founder and owner of Little Bear animal sanctuary in Flordia where he lives a happy life with his husband. It was not always that way. Chris shares his very personal story of losing his 1st husband to illness and eventually suicide. After which he hit rock bottom quitting his job and doing drugs. He no longer wanted to live. He shares the whispers that got him out of that place and into following his dream of opening an animal sanctuary. His story reminds us that rock bottom is not the end but can be the beginning of something better. He implores everyone to reach out to someone if you are in need of help.

Episode Transcription

Intro Plays

Ari: Welcome to Is prism bricks. My name is Ari Sherwin, I’m your hosts. My guest today is Chris vane. Krista vervain is the founder and executive director of Little Bear Sanctuary, a nonprofit farm animal sanctuary in Punta Gorda, Florida. named in memory of his late mother Ursula, which by the way, translates to Little Bear in Latin. They shared a common passion for animals and Ursula often dreamed of providing neglected once abused animals a safe haven. While originally from New York, Chris surprisingly started off with a career in human health care, eventually landing in Florida working as a realtor. When he met his husband, Randy, everything changed for the better that is, their relationship sparked a new passion to live each day with purpose. Together, Chris and Randy follow through on Ursus dream, and established Little Bear Sanctuary in 2017. Now 180 Plus rescued farm animals call a little bit of sanctuary home. And thanks to Chris for Christopher’s compassion and dedication, Each animal has been given an opportunity to experience love and freedom. Please help me welcome Chris Van.

Chris, how are you, Chris? 

Chris: I’m doing well.

Ari: That’s good. Oh, it’s my pleasure. Sounds like

whoa, sounds like a lot of work. Sounds like you did.

Um, you know, just reading your bio. Now. As you know, the name of the podcast is whispers and bricks, and the whispers of those voices telling us what is the right thing to do. And they represent the good in life. The bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be real, everybody has a brick thrown at them at some point in time. Some bigger bricks, some smaller bricks, but everybody goes through those bricks.

Chris: That’s for sure. The good thing is that there are whispers out there that that helps a person as well. You just have to know when to listen to the whispers or otherwise wait for the brick. Now after reading your bio, it seemed that you had a pretty good life. However, if to speak with you at length, I know that you’ve been hit with some really, really tough bricks. Now I’d like you to take us back to that period. I think it was like right before 911 And then right after 911. And tell us what was going on. What’s your story? Oh, geez. Um, so, gosh, I was pa in New York City.

And yeah, you know, it’s funny, I had a great, great childhood great life, great job, you know,

living on the Upper West Side in a rent controlled apartment in Manhattan, you know, what, you know, what could be better than that?

911 happens.

And, you know, looking back now, it was not just a significant turning point for obviously, everybody involved but

you know, I


I lost my partner of 12 years to suicide a month later.

He quick background story just so people can kind of relate to

things that happen medically to people who

he was HIV, he ended up getting Lyme disease, which was undiagnosed for it had to be a good two years because it did go to neuro Lyme. And unfortunately, what happens when you already have a compromised immune system, and then you get something like that on top of it. It really just wrecked his short term memory.

just destroyed his brain, unfortunately. And

he, he also had a background in

in nursing for a while. So he, he sort of saw what was coming.

Do want me to sort of tell the story of how I kind of figured it all out. I’m not sure how detailed you want me to be or

it’s your show.

This is about you. This is about your show as I do with me. I want you to you know, be as comfortable as you can. Okay, and

give us as much or as little information as you want to share with us. Okay, perfect.

So 911 happens.

He worked for Goldman Sachs. And for whatever reason, and I’ve heard this through other people B didn’t go to work that day. Just didn’t feel like going to work. And I remember a really good friend of mine calling who had a view of the World Trade Center. And she’s like, Oh, my God, she’s like, turn on the TV turn on the TV, a plane just crashed into into the Twin Towers. And I’m like, what? You got to be kidding me. Right? So, of course, turn on the TV. And there it is.

What a crazy day.

So strange that he stayed home, right.

And it was about a month late. It was actually a month late. It was It was October 11.

We had leading up to that.

His memory was really

was really getting his short term memory specifically was really completely diminished. He

he, I would come home from work, and he’d be watching the movie of the week, you know, back then this is you know, they’d show that movie every single day. You know, Monday through Friday, same time, like, you know, seven o’clock at night. And, you know, he’s watching the movie of the week on Monday. And

Tuesday, I come home, and he’s watching the same movie. And I like, like, you just watched that movie. What are you? What are you doing? You know, and he’s like, I’ve never seen this movie before. And I’m like, come on, as somebody like, you joking with me, right? And Wednesday, are his same thing, man, he, he’s watching the movie again. I’m like, What the heck.

And it literally went that way through the whole week.

So that Friday, I sat down with him. And I explained what was happening. And this was already now, you know, six months into this. And it was clear, you know, it was really evident that obviously,

this was going in a really bad place. He


it’s hard. You have to really love somebody to be able to hear that you don’t remember things. You know, it’s one of those like, if you’re not if you don’t remember you don’t remember. And it’s hard. I think some people don’t realize, especially with like Alzheimer’s and that

the person telling you, you know, you’ve read it, either believe them what they’re telling you, because you don’t remember what you don’t remember. I don’t know if that makes sense. No, no. 100% Yeah. So yeah, so let me ask so. Alright, so his memory was going. Yep.

Now, you said that he had Lyme disease that went undiagnosed. He had it he was he was HIV positive.

What I mean, the

the, the Alzheimer’s, I guess was that?

It was probably it was like an early onset dementia, basically because of the disease because of the Lyme disease. Oh, so yeah. So I wanted to find out, you know, what was what was the what do you think the root cause was of the dementia, but you’re telling me now so it was the Lyme disease? Because people live with HIV for you know, Oh, yeah. Today was, you know, for he’s on medication. He was doing great. Otherwise, yeah. Right. Okay. So, so that so had nothing to do with HIV.

It just like gets indirectly, you know, well, yeah, but I’m saying in other words, if a

combination of heavy contract Lyme disease, do you even know, uh, we had a house on Fire Island, I’m sure.

Somewhere out there. There’s so many ticks out there. There’s the the deers are covered in ticks. It’s a big. I think it was a pretty big epidemic out there. Really? Fire? I don’t. Yeah, that’s interesting. I have friends who have houses out there. Nobody ever, you know, nobody ever talked to me about deer in tech. So

I guess that’s the topic of conversation.

Yeah, okay. So so please, not happen. I would say that was probably like, good six months prior that he was diagnosed with that and it was this slow evolution of the memory loss. And I think that week specifically, is what stood out in my mind. Because sometimes you really

sort of ignore the signals if you’re with somebody where you just, you know, I don’t know, and maybe because I was in healthcare I, maybe I didn’t want to admit it to myself or

I, you know, I don’t know. Right. Right. I hear.

So, but he did. You said he went undiagnosed, but obviously somebody, there was some that I mean, he must have, you must have felt like, prior, we just didn’t realize, you know, to what extent it would affect him mentally. Right. Oh, you know, so you really didn’t go to a doctor, I’m assuming? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Hit it really good doctor.

Did they did they foresee I mean, did they did they say, you know, this is gonna be fatal? Or did they have to, you know, you walk in, they say, oh, yeah, we’ve seen this a lot, you know, we have to do is take these, these pills, and you’ll be fine. I mean, what was good? What was, you know, what was their reaction?


dementia is one of those things that doesn’t have a timeline and doesn’t have a predictable path. So I don’t think anybody knew for sure.

How soon it would happen, if it would happen, how bad it would get.


I mean, it really got bad with his memory. And

I, once I had that conversation with him, he he started to cry, I started to cry. I think he

or if he had lived another six months, he probably would have been in a home or someplace because he would not have been able to function. You know, that’s that was.

That was I was pretty sure about that. He was pretty sure about that. We weren’t

you know, we weren’t

trying to sugarcoat it or say, Oh, my God, this is going to get better, don’t worry. I mean, there’s just no, you know, I mean, it was what it was. And


I guess he didn’t want to be a burden.

He didn’t want to get to the point where

someone would have to make decisions for him or he be stuck.


where he was being, you know, taken care of,

you know, and it’s just,

you know, you’ll end up in diapers, you end up completely incapacitated, and, and I, you know, looking back now, obviously, he made a choice to

and just life.

Ari: Did you did you have any inkling that he was going to do that? I mean, I had no clue. Really? I wish he would have talked to me about it. Would you have talked him out of it? Ah, I probably would have talked him out of it. Which is why I think he didn’t speak to you didn’t tell you Sure. Sure. He just didn’t, I guess, you know, he just didn’t want to be a burden. He knew what was going on. And he said, You know what?

Chris: I’m not gonna have Chris lived through this. And I would imagine, I would imagine he did it more for you than he did it for himself. That’s what I would imagine. I

I don’t know. I would imagine. Yeah. Unfortunately, you know, led to other things that were, you know, not expected and

I don’t think he thought out, you know, the big right, so what happened? Yeah, so October 11.

We’re both home.

He went out to get the New York Times

came back home. I just remember we were watching TV. Not the same movie

definitely not.

But yeah, I don’t even realize he’s just background stuff.


you know, he I

at the time, obviously, I didn’t know what was going on. But remember, he started falling asleep and he was snoring. And

and then I don’t know what I already I can’t even explain this to this day. What happened? I blanked out.

There was

a I had a strange

strange sensation. I felt it was like

a whooshing noise is the best I can explain it.

I just remember everything going dark for maybe a second. And then almost like blacking out, but it was like very quick. And then when I

when it stopped, you know, he was laying at the side of the bed on the floor. And I had seen like 20 minutes have gone by and I was completely confused.

On like, what breast What are you laying on the floor for, you know, it was just so odd. You know, and I’m shaking him and

he had already passed. Put them on his back. I’m just you know, like I couldn’t you know, you’re the chemicals in your body. I was completely, like frantic and the alarms were going off in my head. And, you know, I’m listening to his heart. I’m taking his pulse and there’s nothing and I start doing chest compressions.

The blood came out of his mouth. I think he I think he probably sees in his tongue. One what he took to overdose.

So I

everything was, you know, like, I feel it was like almost like a dream trance. At that point. I remember picking up the phone, dialing 911.

I told them, I think he took something.

The ambulance was there in Gosh, four to five minutes. I mean, I heard the ambulance.

They got to the apartment.


they kept asking me, How long has he been down? How long has he been down? And I honestly, I didn’t know.

You’re down more than 20 minutes. They don’t bother trying to bring you back.

They kept asking me has it been more than 20 minutes? Has it been more than 20 minutes? And I kept saying I don’t know. I don’t know.


was already turning blue.


had to make a decision at that point. I it sort of was all very confusing.

I knew one of the ambulance drivers. And

she said has it been more than 20 minutes Chris?

And I said yes. And they said we’re very sorry for your loss

it was I there was it was such an insane day Ari. I I don’t even remember the time. You know, they had to obviously call the police. They had to bring in a detective because when you’re with somebody you know who dies they need to make sure no foul play. Sure. And the police got there. I was taken out of the apartment.

I just sit out I couldn’t go back and they weren’t we wouldn’t allow me.

The detective came they went through the apartment.

It must have been, gosh, two hours a good two hours and they were questioning me and you know all that stuff. And then they had to call the you know, medical examiner. Now the medical exam was in the middle of nine 911 Right. A month later the medical exam was right, right. absolute insanity, like everything was inside. They couldn’t come pick up the body until like one in the morning.

I’m still not allowed back in my neighborhood come home at this point. So I stayed in his apartment for a while. I had to call Ross’s family

talk to his brother, his brother said you know I’m gonna fly up Chris. I’ll I’ll be there tonight.

Ari: And where was he coming from?

North Carolina. Okay. And

Chris: obviously, the police were fine. I mean, obviously I didn’t do anything and you know, they were satisfied that he probably took something but they couldn’t find anything.

So I don’t know how well they looked because I found the stuff after they left. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, it was it was underneath the bed. It was raining where he was so I

you know I he had taken fentanyl, which is all in the news right now. It’s it’s a narcotic that unlike

unlike some of the stronger narcotics this one actually lowers your blood pressure significantly. So it’s very easy to overdose on it. And it’s very quick.

Ari: So you knew what he was doing? You know, he had the background

Chris: Yeah, I mean, that’s definitely what he took.

So his, you know, doctor called me on the phone. And, you know, we all agreed that, you know, he probably did this knowing

what would happen months down the road, you know, we all had came to the same assumption.

And for some reason, you know, I knew his final wishes, you want to be cremated all that stuff, you know, I mean, this is like weird stuff that you’d probably most people don’t talk about with their spouses. But,

you know, I

I knew he didn’t want to ever, you know, he didn’t want that autopsy, he didn’t want to be cut into pieces. We all knew how do you know what that’s all about? And so I did, I did mention that. And, and I guess, because

of the craziness, they were fine with it, everybody was fine with it.


the next the next morning, you know, they were very respectful considering, you know, back then there was no gay marriage. And, and, and I think a lot of it, unfortunately had to do with 911. I just figured they were just like, Fine, honestly. Yeah, they probably figured, you know what, yeah, we were sorry for your loss. Yeah, but it’s one guy. And we’re dealing with, you know, you know, an attack on our homeland, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, what, to a degree, I think you’re, you’re lucky in that sense. In other words, it wasn’t a long drawn out situation where they, you know, checking everything and whatnot, you know, is like, we got more important things to do right now, you know, find good, you know, move on. Yeah, yeah, they were just, they literally, they said, We’re gonna have to put a known cause of death on the death certificate, because so they just, you know, if I need to have to be different than we would have to go through the autopsy. Right.

Do all of that. And

yeah, I don’t know, if I just, you know, again, it’s, it’s really

your mind. It just, it’s amazing how it compartmentalizes things so you can get through certain times, you know, it’s very strange. So

Ari: I mean, I know, I know exactly what you’re talking about. Okay. Again, 911, for me was, you know, 658 friends and co workers that were that were killed on that day. So,

Chris: again, by me, it wasn’t a spouse, but just the magnitude and the number of people. It was just like, you know, Chris, I, you know, I for one certainly understand, to a degree, certainly not completely, but to a degree understand what, you know, what you’re going through. But let me ask you this. So, what, after all this happened?

So, the next day, real, you know, I had to call the landlord because I’ve my, my name was never on the lease, you know, we had been there for 10 years together. And

she’s like, Oh, my God, Chris, I heard what happened to Ross, I’m so sorry. Blah, blah, blah, blah, I’m going to call you back.

I’m like, okay, you know, two hours later, her attorneys call me and say we don’t know who you are.

And I, it’s as if things couldn’t get worse, right?

So like, what would they like, throw you out of the apartment? No, they legally couldn’t do that. Thank goodness. Now, at this point, I’m like, What am I going to do? I didn’t even know who to call or what to do and

called a couple friends. What happened to be in politics, he’s like, called Lambda Legal. Lambda Legal is a it’s a law firm. They’re all around the country now. And they

they work with gay, lesbian transgender issues.

Insist in situations like this, you know, for equal rights. And

they decided to take my case.

What happens in a situation like this is

you’re allowed to stay.

They, reef I tried to pay the rent a couple times, which they wouldn’t accept which we expected. So

you basically get to stay there till your court date. And then for the judge to decide, am I you know, do I legally, my legally allowed to take over this apartment at $700 a month?

Or can they raise the, you know, whatever, to 1400 a month at that time or whatever it was worth. So, it was an IT WAS AN

Tire it was a year process literally an entire year. And I had to submit photos of us together any you know, it was it was very disruptive. It was very,

it was so personal the stuff that they wanted and asked for. And you know, it just really if I felt violated

considering everything I had gone through and sure, like that they knew me. I mean, the whole thing was left was such an ugly, horrible thing to do to somebody, you know. And they literally, you know, they obviously had no problem with it. So, dear later, literally, on October 11, a year later, the day he died was my court date. And I did and I did win. So, yeah, crazy stuff. Wow. So you had to pay two years, I had to pay the whole year’s rent at once, you know? Yeah. And, you know, they raised the rent 2%, which was right.

Right. But you know, it was, you know, add that on top of, you know, for an entire year, am I going to be here, am I not, you know, I’m not paying rent, what’s going to happen, you know, was was such an insane time for me.


I guess the stress of it all the trauma

led me to

substance abuse.


I mean, you know, I’m a gay guy living in New York City, it’s easy access. Unfortunately, it’s just to the club scene is there it’s no, there’s no issue. You know, you can get whatever you want, right.

So, you know, that just led me down a darker path.

I remember I was high that year later at the court date.


so my dogs are all going crazy.

I was so high at that court date, Ari.

I remember when he was like, nothing did nothing mattered to me at that point anymore. I was just really, I was so beat down. I was so traumatized. It was

I really, I probably should have left that apartment instead of staying there.

But not for me. I just wanted, you know, I had to prove this point. I couldn’t let them do that. And, and

I guess the trauma of the events, it was just a lot easier to

take things that right enough to think about it at all. And I literally didn’t have to think about it at all. I was getting high every single day.

We still going to work at the time. Um, I had an administrative job at that point. So I wasn’t seeing patients.

I was going to work. Yeah. Wow. So you had

Ari: Wow. So that certainly answered my next question about you know, what happened after that? How did you deal with it? But obviously, you dealt with it by you know, not in the best fashion. So, alright, so now you’re probably at the lowest you’ve ever been in your life.

What? How did you get out of that? No, that was that. I mean, you were you know, it was you know, it sounds like you were ready to curl up into a ball and die.

Chris: And it was completely hopeless. Like completely I, you know, you hear about

people talk about being hopeless and they want to commit suicide and you know, I never

could even imagine, you know, what that would feel like

until I was there. And

Ari: so, how did you get out of it? You know, I I mean, you obviously you made a huge comeback. 

Chris: Yeah. Oh my gosh, like, my whole life changed. I it was.

It was it was a year later after that. So it’s two years after


I had

I actually had left my job.

I was on unemployment.

We knew it was a good thing.

So at that point, here I am on unemployment just doing drugs have no have no goals. I have no hope.

I was sitting

in the apartment. I remember looking out the window.

You know coming to from how many days of partying and


I didn’t want to live anymore

so I thought, you know, this would just be so easy to overdose right now, you know? And

so I decided to try it

so I took a whole lot of drugs a

whole lot of drugs, gosh. And I remember

remember, everything started going black.

And I kind of felt at peace really strange.

And I said, Oh, this is it, you know, this isn’t so bad. You know, I

everything went dark.

And for some reason I woke up like an hour later.

I was like, oh, fuck, pardon my French. I was like, I cannot believe this. You know, at this point. I’m just like,

kidding me. This right? I can’t even do this.

So I think I slept for three days after that.

And I

I remember calling my mom. They lived in Florida at the time. They have retired to Florida.

And i

i So I knew I had to get out of just had to leave New York. That’s the only way I was gonna survive. And

I remember speaking to my mom. And I said, you know, Mom ticket about moving to Florida.

I don’t even know why I said that already. I mean, it was just like, I didn’t know what else to do.

So she’s like, Oh, she’s like, that would be amazing. I would love it. If UK. You know, she was so excited. You know, law, you know? Yeah. And, and my father is like, you know, completely off what what do you leave? What do you want? Anybody mean, you’re coming? You know, what about your job? What about your

Ari: meanwhile, they don’t know what’s going on? You know? Never told them that you never told them? No, not at that time. Oh, wow. I mean, they knew what happened with Russ and all of that craziness. Yeah. Oh, they did. Okay. Didn’t know I was they didn’t know I was right. Right. Right. Okay. Okay.

Chris: That makes sense. So, I guess just that conversation

I my body relaxed.

Insomething inside of me.

said that’s what you need to do.

You need to get you need to go to Florida. Like I literally knew that. That’s what I had to do.

And the second I made that decision.

I felt

happy, which I hadn’t felt in years years. Yeah.

I literally Ari in two weeks, I was packed up and moving to Florida. Like that’s how quick I did it.

Stay with mom and dad until I could get situated. Yeah.

And then never look back. I

decided I wasn’t going to go back to be a PA down here.

I did my good duty i i i I couldn’t go back to doing that again. Right.

Since I lived in New York City, I the easiest for me was to move to Miami Beach where I knew I wouldn’t need a car, etc, etc initially.

So that’s what I did. I just I literally moved to Miami Beach and

looked for an admin job, which I got, you know, a couple months in and

sort of like,

just did some mindless stuff for a little bit until I ended up becoming a realtor of all things.

Crazy stuff, right? I never would have

figured I’d go down that stream. But yeah, as a realtor for 10 years and you know, everything’s been

been phenomenal. And


Mom and Dad are getting very old and I decided, you know, even though I was pretty close, I decided to move up closer to them right up here in town in Punta Gorda, right.

I was taking

a real estate seminar on following your passion in real

State, and

I’m just sitting there like,

you know, I’m thinking about my life, you know, I’m 50 years old at this point 51, you know, like, right at that time. And I was really

I really took a hard look at

what did I really want to do, like I wasn’t, you know, like I was I was a kid, I was making money, it was fine. It was whatever I was, I sort of feel like, I just went with the flow at that point.

And then I just, you know, I was vegan for a while. And I’ve always wanted to work with animals, I had initially wanted to be a veterinarian, ended up in human health care instead.

It was literally like a light bulb moment. And I said, I’m going to open up a Farm Sanctuary.

Going to rescue farm animals, I’m going to start a nonprofit. And

the second I made that decision, doors started opening, it was like magic, it was just,

I decided to become a vet tech, so I could really learn the science and hook up with a veterinarian and, you know, have that background. I had looked at nonprofits who did this and that care was like the most expensive part of operating a sanctuary. So I said, let me do that. And I loved that I loved I loved that job so much.

Met my husband a week later, from starting the job.

We were married six months later,

we bought the property six months after that. And and here we are today on 30 acres 180, farm animals the nonprofit’s doing amazing.

I’ve never been happier in my life.

Well, it’s all led me to here, are you all of that, you know, they say, you know, God’s got, you know, a plan. And that’s, you know, for better or worse, you know, and, and we’ve, we firmly believe

that God always has our best,nyou know, our, you know,

it’s always good. It’s always good, sometimes doesn’t look good, sometimes doesn’t smell good, sometimes doesn’t taste good. But at the end of the day, you know, is he’s there for our own benefit, and he’s there to help us.

And you just have to look for the good. That’s what I found. And I think that I think that’s what that’s what happened with you. I think once once this whole episode was over. And, you know, a change of scenery certainly helps.

Ari: That, you know, God was basically telling you, he was whispering to you, and he’s telling you, you know, Chris, alright, this is what you need to do. Okay, that, that, that, that real estate seminar was like, the kick in the pants that will let you go like, Oh, my God, what am I doing here? Why am I doing this, and I was God whispering to tell you, you don’t belong here, you have another calling, and what a beautiful calling it is, you know, to help those to help the animals and to meet your spouse and to you know, I mean, it’s just, you know, you suffered 100%, nobody’s gonna, nobody’s gonna say any different. All right, but you know, it’s kind of almost like the story of Job. Right? If you know, your Old Testament, you know, Joe, that went through tremendous sufferings and the like, and then at the end of the day, God came back and, you know, restored his life. And that’s kind of what happened here. You know, you went through all these bad things, and then ultimately, me and God restored your life. And he, you know, he says, All right, you know, you’ve been through a lot, you know, what, it’s time for you to get happy. And, and I think that’s, that’s, that’s what’s happening. And that’s what happened. And and I’m personally very happy for you. I know, it’s a tough, I want to thank you for sharing your story. I know it’s difficult for you. And I know that you haven’t shared this before. So I’m very thankful that you you know, you chose me to host this show so that you can come out and tell your story.

Before we go, let me ask you this, is there anything that you’d like to share with my audience before we go any words of wisdom that you can, you know, give to people that may be going through God knows why but you know, you know, what have you got for us? Sure.

Chris: If anybody you know, if anybody’s listening if, if you’re ever at that point in life, where you think you’ve hit rock



you don’t think there’s anything left for you

if you are hopeless

reach reach out to someone there are people who can help. There are organizations that can help. Sometimes you lose your friends through this you know, sometimes you lose your family through this, but you know it, there are people who can help.

There are people who want to help

reach out to you, there’s it’s so much better to live

it’s so much better to live, don’t go down that path. If you’re there, it’s you can get out of it.

It’s a it’s a it’s a reset. Even if you don’t know what you want to do, where you’re going to go if you have no clue.

This it’s it’s a it’s the perfect place to be to start over to find out.

You know what life has in store for you? You know, don’t give up there. There really are people out there who can help. Wow, that that’s really great. Somebody once said to me, if you’ve hit rock bottom, the only place to go is up. Yeah. It’s very true.

Ari: So Chris, let me ask you this, if people want to get in touch with you, you know, they want to, you know, they need somebody to talk to or they want to know what you know if there’s any you know, other things that they can you know, that you can help them with? We’ll how can they get in touch with you? What’s the best way for them to do that?

Chris:  Sure. So our website for the sanctuary if anybody’s interested. It’s Little Bear And anybody can reach me I’m available by email. Probably the easiest way to get in touch with me initially. And it’s it’s my first initial see for Chris my last name vain, which is V like Victor a like apple. And like Nancy, you like Edward. So saving at Little Bear And I’m always happy to help.

Ari: Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. So it’s C vein, that little bear If you need to get in touch with Chris, that’s the best way to do it. He’s there to help you. He’s there. Even if you just want to talk, you’re going through stuff and you need somebody to talk to Chris is there. He knows he’s been there. And he’s and he’s there to help. Which is great. Chris, thank you so much for sharing your story with me and my audience. I know it wasn’t easy for you to share. I’m sure that many people my audience have been inspired. Good luck going forward. You’re listening to whispers of bricks and I’m your host Gary Sherman. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.