86.  Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

86. Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

 Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle


Deanna Kuempel is a serial entrepreneur who has owned several successful businesses both by herself and with her late husband. She has faced several bricks from being a victim of domestic violence and human trafficking. To losing her husband and having to start over. To the successful podcast host with a job she loves and a fiancee. Her story reminds us that we must keep going when times get tough. She reminds us not to dread the inevitable able struggles in life but embrace them.

Show notes:


Episode Transcription

Intro Plays



Ari: Welcome to whispers and bricks. My name is Ari Schonbrun. I’m your host. My guest today is Deanna Campell. Deanna was born and raised in the Chicagoland area. Prior to meeting her husband, she had a small event planning business, and offered Personal Training Services. Later on, she was vice president of key accounts and business operations for a $20 million transmission remanufacturing facility with 150 employees, while simultaneously managing for other entities for 10 years. In 2016, she was forced to start over, she always had a passion for fashion and so she engaged a design company out of Soho, New York, and founded the Deanna Marie label in 2017. Deanna was on the runway in Rhode Island at style week, and was a finalist for stylish Chicago for the Cadillac designs challenge. She subsequently rolled out a skincare line in conjunction with our label, and still successfully as a steady client base with that to this day. In 2019, Deanna started a podcast, Deanna started a podcast, Deanna had overcome much abuse and trauma. And so she decided on the name label free, with the help of her best friend, Julie Brian, Deanna truly lives her life, free of any kind of labels. She focuses on talking to mainly entrepreneurs that are living life on their own terms, and can offer insight or and wisdom for the audience. Her podcast is currently in the top 2% globally, on several platforms, she is streaming on 15, audio platforms and YouTube. Please help me welcome Deanna Campell.

Deanna: Thank you, Ari for having me as a guest today, sorry about the stupid talk in the background. And we just hit New. And so that’s just my that’s what the opener for me today.

Ari: There you go. It’s a beautiful thing. So how are you doing?

Deanna: I’m doing great. Thank you for the generous introduction and the recap of my life so far. Yeah, it’s always it’s always it’s taken me a while to actually get to a proper bio, because it’s very challenging to self promote. And to put that together, because I feel if you’re a humble person, it’s, you don’t really don’t acknowledge all of your successes.

Ari: I hear you. But you know what, as somebody once said to me, if you don’t toot your own horn, who will? So that’s what we got to do. That’s what we have to do. Yeah, so I’ve got some interesting questions. But as you know, the name of the podcast is whispers and bricks, and the whispers of those voices telling us what the right thing to do is, and they represent the good in life. The bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And we all know life is not a straight line, there are many ups and downs and many bumps in the road. There are bricks out there that we get hit with some bigger bricks, some smaller bricks, some more bricks have less bricks, but at the end of the day, you know, everybody goes through something. Now, you seem to have had a very successful career Early on, like from the event planning business, personal training, to VP of transmission, manufacturing remanufacturing business for other entities. Can you tell us a little bit about what life was like back then? Like, how old were you when all this started? And you know what was going on?

Deanna: Um, so I was with my late husband for about 17 years before he passed. You know, obviously, we dated for a few years before we got married. But I was involved in the business in his business, probably like around 2000. And let’s see her six maybe, I know, maybe earlier than that. It’s hard to recollect but for you know, for over 10 years, we had he had a remanufacturing business for transmissions we serviced like all the blue chip clients, customers like FedEx ups, you know, the yellow school buses all over the nation and in Canada, waste haulers, you know, here in US and Canada. So we had a very good customer base. We did do some dealers, like the Cat Dealers, International Truck dealers, things of that nature. But I started out you know, he, he kind of fought me a little bit when I wanted to start with the company. And I was just like, well, this is my life, too. I want I’m gonna get involved. So I’m like, I’ll go to the first meeting, because he had to, he had to start over. He had one business for, I think over 20 years. And then when 2008 came when the economy crashed, he lost that business. The bank had actually pulled alone, we ended up losing like $10 million. And then we had to restart. And there was a lot of things that I had known after committing my committing my life to Him. And so I was like, No, I’m gonna be there for the for the first meeting when we restart, then we were up until like three o’clock in the morning fighting because I was like, I’m no, I’m going to be there. I’m like, I’ll just sit there, I’ll be quiet. And I’ll just observe. And so, you know, as we started rebuilding, and I started getting more involved in the business, he was like, I completely underestimated or you underestimated yourself. Yeah, you did. So I, it became very apparent that I was a natural leader. And I started taking a lot of things over to make the business successful, as well as a lot of our other businesses. And we had started in installation arm to unite, you know, I pushed that, and I was the driver behind that as well. So it was, it was fun. I look back now it was hard, because we had we were, we had lost $10 million. And to rebuild out that was a struggle, not gonna lie, but to have gotten through it. And to reach some of the success milestones in my career with him. I look back and like, holy crap, I did that, you know, in the moment, I’m just, I’m just going, just going. And so I learned a lot. Manufacturing is not something I really enjoyed to be in. I’m not a car person. So it wasn’t sexy to me. You know, I was not interested in the talk about the solenoids, and all this crazy stuff. I’m like, the gears and I don’t know that it wasn’t my thing. I was strong in the operations. I was strong with customer or customer and supplier relationships, very involved in almost every aspect of the hiring, firing. And, you know, just all of that. So I had a lot of experience for about 10 years until he passed.

Ari: So So let me ask you this. Like, when did you meet your husband?

Deanna: We met at the gym. So yeah, we met at the gym. So one of my girlfriends knew him. She came in to visit me there. He saw her. And I had actually had asked to meet me and I I was not interested because I just gotten out of a very abusive relationship. And I needed to just declare clear all that baggage because I couldn’t sustain another relationship like that. So I probably he probably came, pursued pursued me for about six months.

Ari: Oh, wow. Okay, so you just mentioned something that I did not really know about. Something about a bad relationship, abusive and trauma, basically, that’s why you came up with the name free label phrase label free. Right. Well, what was that all about? I don’t know anything about that?


Deanna: Um, well, I mean, we all have a past some of our pasts are better than others. You know, I had I grew up in with, you know, I had strong family values from my mom’s side, and my dad was he’s got a chemical imbalance. He’s not okay. He’s not all there. He was a deadbeat father, you know, I’m the oldest of five. So I have four siblings. He ended up skipping out on us when I was like 15 years old, and never pay child support. But I perpetuated the vicious cycle that I saw at home because he was very abusive to my mother and to myself, I had ended up calling the police on him and about 15 and got him removed from the house. And that’s when my mom finally filed for divorce. But unfortunately, because of my experience, I got into the relationships that were very abusive. And you know, I ended up being a survivor of human trafficking. So I survived that. The last when I said I couldn’t do another abusive relationship. He had actually abducted me one night or one day we’re going to skydiving drove out to Middlefield stabbed me in the arm, I have a scar on my eye from him beating me up. Luckily, I fought him off and I was able to get out of out of the car. And he, he I got back home, and I survived that. And so that was when I was just like, no more, I can’t do it. I cannot keep living in this bad cycle. And you know, I wanted a better life for myself. So So yeah, that was the point of, you know, drastic change for me. And I got into counseling and I just completely got myself out of that whole lifestyle and in created a different life.

Ari: Wow, wow. I’m gonna say this, and I know you know, this, okay, but you’re not alone. Oh, I know.

Deanna: Okay. All right. I’ve been I’ve actually interviewed a bunch of people who have gone through exactly what you have gone through, you know, at different stages of their lives. So when they were kids, some of them were middle aged, some of they were older. So, you know, again, my hat’s off to you that you you know, you took a stand you did what you needed to do in order to get your life back in shape. And that’s, you know, again, my hat’s off to you. Congrats on that. Okay, so then you met So you met your husband, you were a little skeptical there because of the because As of your past, okay, well when you over

the persistence, he was very persistent. Yeah. Although in the beginning, after I finally gave him a chance, he was not innocent either. And, you know, we went through a very rocky period to where to where I finally was, I would open myself up completely to Him and pursue that, because he was a big steroid person. He’s a big bodybuilder, you know, basically a steroid addict. And that’s, that’s what ended up killing him. Ultimately, he needed his he needed his third kidney transplant and had he had a had open heart surgery. Towards the end, it started out he was in the hospital once a month than it was every week than it was at the end. He was he died there, because he had he had been there for over 30 days. And his body was just so toxic. And that’s what really killed him. Because he, you know, he didn’t take care of himself. Even when I was administering dialysis, he was still injecting steroids. He thought like that was, you know, that was going to help him. So that was not fun.

Ari: Wow. So you got hit with a brick early on. In the in the bad relationship, you’re in your family life. You know, your life kind of turns around, you meet this guy, and he’s, you know, he’s great. And then all of a sudden, he’s not so great. And then he is good. And then all of a sudden, you know, he gets he gets sick. And wow, and then, you know, he passes on, and how long have you been married? At that point? Did you say 17 years?


Deanna: We were together? 17 years, I honestly was not in any hurry to get married? I’ll be honest with you. Yeah, he bothered me. He bothered me for a while to set a date. And I mean, probably for a couple of years. I was engaged for quite a while. But we’re married for I think, seven of those 17 years. So we dated for almost 10 years.


Ari: Wow. Now, you mentioned I think I mentioned in your in your bio that in 2016, you had to start over? What was? What was that? Because you mentioned 2008 your business when you know, the business went belly up. And during the crash, what was going on in 2016?


Deanna: He passed away in January 7, I believe it was January 7 2016.

Ari: And so Wow, get hit with that brick. So I guess so what did you do at that point? I mean, you know, well, I

Deanna: was in survival mode. So the you know, the typical story where you have money, I was living in the mansion, he had the Ferrari had the Mercedes, all that stuff. Were you know, he had kids from a previous marriage, they all came in, they wanted, they were trying to evict me out of my home, they were trying to make me leave with none of my belongings. And essentially, they kicked me out of the business, all the businesses plural. And so I ended up you know, I ended up agreeing to leave because I had owned a townhouse prior to getting married, and I held on to it, luckily. So I ended up negotiating my time to leave. And I moved out of the house taking what I had purchased with him and my stuff, which was very difficult to do, because they were trying to make me leave with nothing. And we lived in, we lived in a gated gated community, so no one could come in and see me like I had to have people I had to go pick them up and bring them in, or they would jump the fence to come to come see me and come like help me out with stuff. So like I had to go jump into the tow truck to tow truck driver or not tow truck, the movers truck to come in grab, like move my stuff out of the house, it was a very, it was a very intense traumatic time. And you know, luckily I was able to, you know, all this stuff is just part of our story. You know, it’s a part of our journey, it really molds us into you, we can decide, are we going to be a better person? Are we going to make better choices for our lives that make make everything better? Or are we going to continue down this destructive path and keep keep attracting things that are going to keep us in this vicious cycle. So luckily, I moved out, I got to start over. I use a lot of the resources out there that mean there’s tons of resources out there for anyone that’s struggling. I had gotten some help on my mortgage at my townhouse. And you know that I didn’t have to pay my mortgage for like two years. Thank God, you know, unfortunately, I did have to go the food pantry because I was below poverty. I had no money and I had to keep my lights on. And it was just, you know, my mom had given me a car because they took my car for me, you know, cuz he bought me a Mercedes that was not in my name. And I shouldn’t I didn’t think about it at the time. But it was a gift to me. That was my car. But they heard the terms of the estate. That was the title, the title was in his name, and they were able to take it confiscated and do whatever they had to do with it. You know, I had a motorcycle too. I had my own motorcycle, but that because my name wasn’t on the title. They were able to take that. However, luckily my name was on a lot on all the businesses so I had interest in all the businesses and they had to basically buy me out. You know, I mean that that was a pain in the butt to negotiate. But, I mean, ultimately, we ended up winning some thing, you know, at the end of the day, and it was rough, I had to hire like three attorneys, I was gonna create three different things just for that whole, like that whole situation. Luckily, I was smart enough to do that, because the one didn’t know what to do. And I’m like, Well, I’m not going to, I’m not going to settle, you know, I deserve something. So I had to go and use my resources and find another one. And it was a, it was an intense time period. But you know, I, you know, I’m resilient, and I’m smart. So I was able to, you know, I got a new job wasn’t the best, but I think when you’re starting over, you’re gonna get more of a menial job, you know, and it was it worked for where I was at, at the time, because Emotionally, I wasn’t very stable. And, you know, I had actually hadn’t worked for anybody since I was 16. So I went from being a complete entrepreneur for 20 years of my life, to having to work for someone that was a very rough adjustment, that was very difficult. That is very difficult.


Ari: I can imagine, I can imagine, let me ask you this. Did you ever reach a point in your life where you, you know, like, it was, it was so low that you went like, you know what, I can’t do this anymore. I’m giving up you know, I’m, I’m giving up on my dreams, I don’t care. You know, I’m just gonna, you know, roll up into a little ball and die. Right? Or, but if you did reach that point, and I know many people do even without, you know, the things that that seemed very, very difficult. But if you did get to that point, how did you get yourself out of it? You’re obviously you did, because you’re a functioning human being and you’ve got business and you’ve got, you know, you’re doing everything. Right. So how do you tell us a little bit about that.

Deanna: So I think I’m very strong, you know, and sometimes I’m able to cut off my emotions and just be a little numb, which is probably to my benefit in a lot of ways. And I had a lot of people ask me that, after all that had transpired, and everything was going through legally, and just, you know, just losing that whole lifestyle be completely like float, like, just tear me down to the, to the ground. I think that there were moments when I did think like that, that I just want to give up, but my personality, you know, you I just when I when I have a bad emotion, I allow myself to feel it, but then I let it go. I think that’s one thing that a lot of people that get caught up in all that don’t know how to do, they haven’t taught themselves how to do that. They get caught up in that and they, they just get comfortable in that misery. And in that, in that sadness, I’m not comfortable there. I’m a very happy person. I’m very bubbly. I like to I’m very going, I want to achieve things. I’m driven. So I would let that I would feel that emotion. I’d get mad or whatever I had to do and then I would let it go. And then the next day, tomorrow’s a new day love what can we do tomorrow? And I just kept going, you know, what are you gonna do? You just gotta let sit there in the corner and not do anything. Are you gonna end up in a hospital somewhere? rocking back and forth? No, that’s not an option for me. I’m sorry. Like, I have a big life to live and I’m going to do I have goals. I have dreams. And you know, you can’t get caught up in that and those terrible emotions because feelings aren’t facts. Right? The The fact is that you’re still alive. The fact is, you’re unhealthy that in the fact is I have another chance another day to make my life better.

Ari: Wow. I don’t remember if I asked you do you have any children?

Deanna: I have no children. But I’m getting remarried. I’ve met an incredible man. Probably the best men I’ve ever, ever known. And we are planning on having starting a family. So


Ari: that is, that’s awesome. That is absolutely awesome. Nice guy.


Deanna: Very nice guy. Yes. He was like a police officer. So you know. Oh, wow. I bet you better watch out.

Ari: Oh, wow. No, my hat’s off to him. I am off to all, you know, police and firefighters in the life. I mean, these guys are the real heroes in our world today. All right there. It’s unbelievable. You please let him know that. My hat’s off to him. And I wish them only the best. And just from you know, from the just getting to know you. I know. I’m not really sure who’s getting the better part of that deal. But I think you’re I think you’re both getting the best of best of both worlds. That’s what I think. Let me ask you that half.

Deanna: I totally agree.

Ari: Yeah. Let me ask you this, who’s the one person that you would point to that you would say had the most influence in your life? And why?


Deanna: When at what point because there’s different influences at different points in my life. You know, obviously,

Ari: any point in time pick one

Deanna: I’d say in the most recent the last five years the one that’s had the most positive impact has been my my best friend Julie green Bryant, who is also my booking manager. She I met her at my second job after my life change and she is incredibly intelligent woman. And she looks at things very differently and the way she communicates I’ve learned a lot from her. And she’s just kind of gone through this whole rebuilding journey with me and she’s seen me at my ups and downs, you know, along the way, and to where I’m at today and she’s been a very Major grounding force for me, and then kind of helps me look at things, you know, because I can get pretty worked up. I’m very,

I’m pretty intense chi I never would have known.

Deanna: So, you know, I love to turn to her because she helps ground me and like, helps me like, stay calm and look at things differently. Or, you know, I used to have a tendency to kind of flip my flip my lead, and I don’t do that anymore. And I’d say I owe a lot of that to her.

Ari: Oh, wow. Okay, that’s great. What does she do?

Deanna: Well, she actually she stays at home. She takes care of her mother in law. But she does. She’s my booking manager for the podcast. So she, she loves it. Yeah.


Ari: Wow. Okay, that’s great. That’s great. So let me ask you this, before we go is do you have any words of advice, words of advice, or words of wisdom for my audience, you know, because again, the reason I do this podcast is because I know that there are people in my audience that are going through some of the things, some of the same things that you’re going through. And, you know, sometimes they lose hope. And I enjoy having people like you on my show, because you’re the type of person who can give hope. So what kind of words of wisdom to the I have my audience out there?

Deanna: You know, I learned, I learned to embrace the struggle, because it during that time is, you know, like how, you know, Cole turns into a diamond. And you’re getting all that pressure and pressure and pressure until it turns into a precious stone, your experiences, the struggles that you go through is actually putting that pressure on you to turn you into a beautiful diamond. Or if you want to look at it as going into a cocoon and turning into a butterfly, embracing the struggles where you’re going to learn the most valuable lessons and become a better version of yourself. Instead of the Woe is me. Oh, I feel sorry for myself, why is it happening to me? Instead, say, You know what, there’s a reason why I’m going through this right now. This is just a part of my journey. And God has given me gifts to take forward in my life so that I could possibly be, you know, a ray of sunshine for someone else. So that’s the best advice I can say is because when you get to that place, and you just embrace it, you know, miracles start to happen in your life turns around, and you can view things so much differently.

Ari: Wow, you’re obviously a believer in God. Which is great. Do you consider yourself a religious person?

Deanna: I’m not overly religious, you know, I don’t go to church every you know, every Sunday. I you know, I do read the Bible. I do pray, you know, but yeah, I’m a religious person. It’s I think it’s very important to have to have God in your life, you know, who are whatever religion that might be for people out there. But I feel that having spirituality is very important to important to having a healthy, you know, Outlook.

Ari: I look, I agree with you, 100%. I mean, I’m an Orthodox Jew. All right. And my religion is what’s the is the thing that keeps me grounded, for the most part. All right, and it helps me through all the, you know, the issues that that I’ve gone through in my life. Yeah, so that’s great. So what exactly are you doing right now?

Deanna: Right now in my life professionally, or? Yeah,


Ari: yeah. And you’re in your life right now. I don’t mean sitting there talking to me. I know you’re doing that right now.

Deanna: So I’m a Business Development Manager for IT people network. We are an IT consulting and advisory company we do we work with Fortune 500 companies globally. I’m also a podcast host for a label free podcast. So that’s, both of those things take up all my time. You know, and I’m also you know, fiance, so it’d be, you know, wife and a mother soon. So yeah, my plate is full.

Ari: Wow, that’s great. Deanna, I gotta tell you, Oh, if people want to get in touch with you, how would they? How can they do that? You have a website, you have email, you know, what’s the best way for them to contact you? If they want advice they want you know, they just want to talk to somebody, they need some help.

Deanna: Yes, I would love to reach out to me Do not hesitate. I’m not shy. I embrace everyone that comes my way is labeled free podcast.com. Or I’m on Facebook, Instagram label free podcast, or my personal handle Deanna Campbell, which that will be changing soon. But you know, that’ll redirect regardless. And I’m on LinkedIn. So you can label free podcasts on LinkedIn, or Deanna Campbell as well. So connect with me reach out with me reach out to me. I would love to talk to anyone and everyone

Ari: right now. Just so my audience knows. Deanna is D A N N A? Campbell que UEMPEL Correct. That is correct. Wonderful. Okay, so that’s great. Deanna. Thanks so much for sharing your story with me and my audience, or good luck going forward. It’s except you’re, you’re entering an exciting time in your life. I know that. Okay, I can see you the smile just radiates. All right. I’m so happy for you. And I wish you only the best. Thanks so much for coming on my show. I really appreciate it and so does my audience. Thank you so much. Sorry. You been listening to his prison breaks and I’m your host Irish showman. Roman. Remember, if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time and your career, your business or your life, if you know you’re not enjoying all the success, satisfaction and significance that you desire, then it’s time for you to book a call with me at www dot call with ari.com. Check out my whispers and bricks, Coaching Academy, and until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the breaks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.


86.  Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

85. Hans Kullberg Cherish Every Moment

Hans Kullberg Cherish Every Moment


Hans Kullberg, an author and entrepreneur, went through every parent’s nightmare. His 10-month-old daughter died. He describes his grief journey, what helped him get over this large brick, the whispers that kept him going, and what he learned. He also describes a near-death experience he went through in his 20’s. Now he does many things to honor his daughter’s life, including a children’s book and always striving to be the best dad he can be. He reminds us to cherish every moment with our loved ones.

Show notes:


Episode Transcription


Intro Plays




Ari: Welcome to whispers and bricks. My name is Ari Schonbrun. I’m your host I have with me today as a special guest Hans Kohlberg. Hans is an author specializing in children’s books and parenting books. Also a serial entrepreneur has is a loving father of four wonderful children, and prides himself on being a father first and foremost, cherishing every moment of his fatherhood journey, making up silly fantastical tales of dragons, race cars, flying unicorns and laughing llamas at bedtime. Every night is just part of his parents of his parents hood duties, due to the unexpected tragedy of losing his daughter Aviva. At 10 months old. Hans is motivated to share his fearless character, fun loving spirit and vivacious personality embodied through an orangutan and baby Aviva orangutan diva. Even though she is no longer here to meet friends, Aviva can still change lives and create positive impact through the messages of this book, including overcoming adversity by using your inner strengths, never judging a book by its cover, and staying true to yourself. That is your dad’s ultimate hope and motivation for writing. To bring smiles to children all over the world, while sharing his daughter’s beautiful story and turning sorrow into a wonderful legacy. Knowing intimately how precious life is. His mission is to help other parents embrace the wonderful experience of parenthood to the fullest, always cherishing our children by leading with love. In addition, through sharing his story about the most difficult tragedy a parent can imagine. He hopes to bring attention to the often overlooked grieving journey, and how supporters of bereaved parents can provide comfort simply by showing up. Grief is a process that society in general, does that necessarily embrace well. And through an upcoming book on the grief journey. Hans hopes other bereaved parents will be adequately support supported during the time they need it most. To please help me welcome Hans Kohlberg Heinz how are you?


Hans: I’m doing okay. All right. I’m doing okay.

Ari: Just okay. It’s okay. That’s okay. Listen, thanks so much for coming on the show as my guest, I really appreciate it. You know, as you know, the name of the podcast is whispers and bricks and the whispers of those voices telling us what the right thing to do is, and they represent the good in life. And the bricks unfortunately, represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be real, nobody, nobody avoids every single brick, it just doesn’t happen. Life is not perfect for anybody. And what I found out is, the more perfect a life seems by somebody, the actually the worst, the worse it really is. Now, I asked you to be on the show, because after talking about your story, I knew that there were people in my audience who were going through the same things that you had gone through, they had been hit with brick after brick, much like what you had gone through. And they needed to hear and to know that they could get through the trials and tribulations, the same way that you did, they needed to know that there were whispers out there that could save them. So my first question is very simple. How did you come up with the name for your daughter of Aviva? That is an Israeli name. And I understand that neither you nor your wife are Jewish.

Hans: Yes, thank you so much. All right. And first of all, I really appreciate coming on this show and really telling my story so Aviva my daughter is it’s first of all a wonderful name. You’re correct Well, neither of us are Jewish. However, we fell in love with this name after reading a book by James missioner one of my favorite books in the world it is called the source and as I understand you really love the book as well and and there’s a character in that you know basis fictitional well country at that is a is a fiction book but as a historical fiction based in Israel and her name is Aviva. Spelled Avi VA. And, and for me, you know, the name The name means springtime are kind of almost renewal of life. For myself, I’ve been through a lot of trials and tribulations as well. And so this was kind of a name that really resonated with you know, kind of For the blessings in life, the whispers as we, as you say, and if you actually write her name out in capital letters, Avi VA, it actually looks like mountains and valleys, peaks and troughs. And that really encapsulates what life is about. And obviously, when we named her we did not foresee the future for her but but it really is, you know, how we, as humans actually respond to challenges respond to tragedy, respond to those tough times in life, where we’re down in the, in the trenches in the tross. And really trying to figure out how we can extol those, there’s, there’s good times in life as well, and really holding both at the same time, I think you’re exactly right, there is no perfect life. And the more that we strive to be perfect, or this idea of perfection, I think the farther away we actually get from it. And so embracing the both the good and the bad, at the same time, that pain, the grief, and the happy moments, at the same time, has been one of those aspects of grieving of this bereaved journey that I’m on that that have really had to learn is the skill that you kind of have to have to learn as a as a as a breed parents. So that is really, you know, where we get her name, and it is a drum is spelled and same forwards and backwards. And I just love it.


Ari: Right. So for for all those my audience who don’t know, the source is a book that I read as well. It is, I think, 1300 pages, okay. And it is, it is a great read. Alright, but it is long, I will tell you, but definitely worth the read if you can get it. Now, Hans in your life, you’ve had, obviously a major brick thrown at you, as we’ve just learned from your bio question. How many kids did you have at the time? How old were they? How old? Were you and your wife? And can you just take us back to you know, and tell us how you managed to get through it all?

Hans: Yeah, so first of all, I would say, you know, being a father is my most important job. I know a lot of fathers say that. But I’ve really tried to embrace that and try to make, you know, being being there for my kids. You know, being patient with them leading with love. And being very involved as a parent, really, my first and foremost job, you know, even throughout having different companies and working in etc. But Aviva was born in January 2020. She lived for 10 months and 13 days until November of 2020. She was our third child. So at that time of that she died. Just over a year ago, my oldest son was almost four. My middle daughter was two and a half. And and my my fourth child actually hadn’t been born yet. So so little Liliana is our fourth child and she actually came into our lives just about five weeks ago. So now congratulations. Yeah, thank you so much. I’m a new parent again. Fourth time around but Liliana. Although he never got to know her sister, she actually carries a part of her sister with her because of him. His middle name was Lilia, and Liliana kind of comes from that. And so she we wanted to honor her sister that way, but we definitely want to tell her all the stories about her older sister.

Ari: Wow. Wow. So you had see you had three kids at the time for two and a half and 10 months? Is that correct? And how old? Were you and your wife? If I may ask?



Hans: We’re both in our mid 30s.


Ari: Mid 30s. Okay. And, like, what was the effect that it had on on your wife for one and on your other children? And you as well, I mean, what was I mean?

Hans:  It had to be very, very difficult. I know parents that have lost children from infants to you know, adolescence to teenagers, to young adults to older adults. All right. It’s never easy it’s not it’s not as they say in Hebrew. Dara Hi, in the way of the world, the way of the world is a parent a child buries a parent, not the other way around. The parent does not bury a child that is not that that is not the way life works. Unfortunately, it happens but that’s not the way life is supposed to work. So tell us a little bit about you know what what was going through your mind your heart and you know how your other while your other kids were? Were probably too young to understand what was going on. Although your four and a half year old, your four year old may have understood some of it. But and what was it Get what was the what was the effect that it had on your wife? as well?

Ari: Yeah, so so like lots of things that impact there, but in terms of, you know, the grieving journey, and in terms of the event itself, it’s certainly been the very most difficult one that we’ve ever had to travel through and journey through the worst tragedy that can befall almost any parent, I myself, have have had a very near death experience. In my in my 20s. However, you know, this compared to that there’s, there’s absolutely no comparison and we talk about grief. You know, you shouldn’t necessarily ever compare grief, because the hardest grief I that that you know, is is your own. And that’s that’s the case with everyone. So in terms of the the journey, it’s just been something that I’ve really learned to embrace, and my wife has as well. You know, before this, we really didn’t know much about grief, we really probably couldn’t even spell grief, it is that distant from us. We’ve been very blessed in our lives, and definitely a lot of positives, and to be thankful for. However, you know, when an unforeseen tragedy, unexpected tragedy actually strikes, which happens to a large percentage of us, you’re never expecting that and really, kind of having to live through that is really having to learn what it actually is to live again, what we both kind of told ourselves is we first of all you want to survive, you want to get through it, the very first days and weeks, it just feels like you just can’t get out of bed, you can’t even go to the grocery store. For us, we had even take care of our children, which on one hand was was a blessing that we could have them, I remember coming home from the hospital, given both of them a very big hug and being thankful that we had them. Because I know a lot of parents that are in our situation don’t. And I also wanted to say one of the things you said about parents losing losing children, when it also includes miscarriages in there, because a large number of us go through a lot of trauma with that. But in terms of, you know, having these other kids having to take care of them while grieving at the same time, you really have to take care of yourself, there’s a lot of self care involved. One of the things I did was was really taking off about five months of work, I just knew that I really couldn’t go back to, you know, the day to day, everyday thing that it did. And unfortunately as with COVID, the one of the positive aspects of it. With Aviva being born in January 2020, I got to actually work with her from home, almost every day of her life. And that was that was certainly a very big positive. And so having to go back to work in a situation where I was typically, you know, taking care of her or kind of, you know, she was in my lap, I was on Zoom calls, etc. That was difficult in and of itself. And so I knew I needed to create that space and really embrace the grieving journey. And so some of the things through that I, I’m the kind of guy that likes to go headfirst into everything and try to do everything 110% So, you know, started reading a lot of books about grief, started reading a lot of books about Memoirs of child loss. One of the really good books was Dr. Site, Rabbi Harold Kushner, who, who wrote when bad things happen to good people, excellent book, you know, talking about the spiritual side and reasons why these happens, which there really isn’t a reason not to give away the book. We, you know, all the little micro events in our lives can’t really be controlled by any kind of creator being but but in terms of other books, David Kessler, he’s a he’s a great psychologist. He himself he wrote part of the the five stages of grief with Elisabeth Kubler Ross. And after losing his own son, he ended up writing a book called finding meaning the sixth stage of grief, which is really about you know, after the acceptance stage versus the fifth stage, really, you know, that he thought there was there was something else and finding meaning try to try to find a higher purpose and, and find meaning in that loss that you do have has been something that I felt from the very beginning almost, you know, very first few weeks, which is actually when I wrote the book, baby Aviva ringtone diva. One of the reasons for that, as you said is really trying to carry her legacy prolong her legacy and, and also spread her Surely her wants her charisma

Hans: into the world into the hands of parents and kids that that never got to meet her. So but other other than reading books, you know, speaking with a lot of other people speaking with people that that have gone through it, I think being able to relate to others that have somewhat been in your shoes have been some of the best people to really talk to, because they can actually understand you. And you can also be fully vulnerable with them, get be able to tell them anything that’s on your mind, but the anger, the shock, the the sadness, the trauma, etc, just to be able to kind of cry with them. Human says social beings, we really need each other. And there’s, there’s no more important time than when we’re in the depths. In that grief. also saw a therapist, for the first time in my life, I’ve never seen therapist and was able to kind of learn a lot about self compassion, a lot, a lot about self care from her. And the importance of that, knowing that there’s a lot of wounds a lot, a lot of self blame. That’s almost all the all the time with child loss, there’s a lot of self blame that we kind of put on ourselves, I should have done this, I could have done this, I would have done this. There’s there’s unanswerable questions that kind of percolate through our heads are things that just prolong the suffering, which which we, one of the big differences between pain and suffering is that pain is something that you really feel this is really a part of you that sadness, suffering is kind of the every day daily pain that that we kind of, almost bring upon ourselves a lot of times, by making those decisions to ask this question and set to repeat events in our head. And there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of things that we can do to actually ease that suffering. And so self compassion and self care, throughout grieving has been very important to me. But also, you know, caring for my wife and being there for my wife. One of the things about child loss I’ve learned, I’m sorry, I’m talking a lot, but one of the things I’ve learned is really, a lot of times, you know, it ends in divorce with, with, with, with spouses, and what I’ve learned is that a lot of times, it’s not necessarily because of the events, that tragedy of the child, child’s death itself. But actually, the different ways that there’s, this parents actually grieve that child, you know, a lot of times one wants to move past it and not talk about it. Other one is really, you know, stuck in stuck in the mud stuck in the mud of grief. And, and, and it’s really important to be very supportive. And we’ve learned that from books, I mean, just just from from talking to a lot of other people, but we didn’t necessarily want that to happen either. So I’m glad to say that our marriage right now is stronger than it’s ever been. And it’s really, it’s been a lot of work, it’s been a lot of work to, to really make sure that, you know, we’re there for each other. So, sorry, I’m packed a lot about that. And,


Ari: no, that’s great. That’s really, really great. It really is, you know, there’s a lot of good things that you talked about. And you know, the good thing about the way I do a podcast is you can go listen to it, because you know, it’s it’s a videotape beforehand. So you can go you listen to it over and over again, to make sure that you’ve got everything that’s in there. So please, you know, I’m very happy that you, you know that you elaborate as much as you did, but I’m going to take a step to the side, I’ll call it to the side now that step back with a step to the side. And because you just mentioned something that I did not know something about you yourself having almost died. What was that all about?

Hans: Yeah, so so that was experienced in my 20s when I was in college, and as many of us in college go through, had had been drinking too much. You know, I would admit that ended up falling down a flight of stairs. kind of became became unconscious, you know, definitely not the finest point in my life, but was taken to the hospital taken to the ER, and, and they’re, you know, they kind of diagnosed me with alcohol poisoning. released me the very next day. However I was. The very next day I was I was going through a lot of vomiting going in and out of consciousness, not necessarily, you know with it, it’s not wasn’t your normal hangover. And that was a Sunday and then ended up going to classes on a Monday of college classes and was able to kind of pay attention, but then fall asleep and I was writing but wasn’t, you know, wasn’t necessarily like making things out on a piece of paper. And something was definitely continuing to kind of hamper my cognitive abilities essentially. That day, went home, took a nap, came back. And my roommate had been out of town and he for the weekend, and he got back he said, you know, Hans, you are, you’re acting very, very strange. You should go to the hospital, you go go the doctors, I’m like, No, it’s just this hanger, I can’t really get get over it. He ends up going. He was on the soccer team. And when it goes to soccer practice comes back a couple hours later, and he sees me completely slumped in my chair and not and staring off actually in space. So I had my eyes wide open. And so he immediately put me on his back, put me in the fireman’s hold and, and took me to the ER, which happened to be three blocks down the street carried me down the street. Wow. And they they ran a CT scan on my head and they realized that I had a what’s called an epidural hematoma, which is basically a blood clot that was on the outside of my brain sac that was threatening to rupture my brain. So if basically a blood gets gets in the rain if that if that ruptures? It’s immediate death.


Ari: Yes. Game over. Yeah, for sure.


Hans: And, and the head, neurosurgeon was on call that night, fortunately. And he, you know, mediate surgery. He, and later, you know, a few days later, when he was talking to me, he said, Hans, you’re incredibly, incredibly lucky to be alive. You had maybe 15 minutes, and that epidural hematoma would have ruptured, and that that would have been it. It was about the size of a hamburger, he said, Oh, my God, I’m on the side of my head. And so he’s like, you’re extremely lucky. You know, most people that have these do not come back, I think about 90% Don’t make it. And he said, You, you definitely owe a lot to your friend, my friend Garrett, and I’ll never I’ll never forget it, you know, will net will always be in debt to him.


Ari: Right, let me ask you this was was that hematoma was that the byproduct of the drinking binge, or was just,

Hans: it was from from hitting my head on the on the staircase. So there’s a metal staircase. Lot of other times when people have epidural hematomas is due to sometimes baseball hitting, you know, hitting someone’s head, or, you know, a pretty serious accident, maybe skiing and you hit a tree with your head, stuff like that, that you know, that it happens on Inside there’s internal swelling that that that occurs, but you know, it’s a silent killer is a kind of just dies and grows over time.

Ari: Wow. That’s, that’s amazing. I did not know that. That is absolutely amazing. So let’s get back to some really good stuff right now. So what what are you doing right now?


Hans: In short, I’m really, really trying to honor my daughter’s legacy. And I’m really trying to, you know, find ways both creative and non creative, I guess, ways to actually honor her her life to spread her message and spread her joy. And one of those ways is actually through children’s books. And so when I was, you know, thinking about it was this is about a week after she died. We hadn’t heard her celebration life, we had a funeral. And when you go to these events, you tend to hear these eulogies, oftentimes by family members or friends. And a lot of times, you know, they’re talking about how this person changed their life or how, you know, this person had had this funny story about him or her, and ways that this person has created an impact. And oftentimes, that’s usually a message that’s embedded in this eulogies. And when we’re sitting there doing a Vivas eulogy at her Celebration of Life You know, it’s just struck me that the majority of people that were there, and this is during the hydrocodone minute. So not many people came. But even even still, those watching on Zoom, they didn’t get to know who she was, they didn’t really get to know who Aviva is. And as a father, as her father, I was very fortunate that I did. And she affected me in a very profound way she just had, I can kind of brag about her because because she, she just had this really, you know, amazing, just aura about her, this, this, this kind of just loving, or that was very different from our other kids. And so So what I wanted wanted to do is kind of pass that on and almost become a vessel or channel for her to kind of work through me and, and really get her message out into the world. And so a lot of the underlying themes of the book baby Aviva ringtone diva, are about staying true to yourself overcoming different challenges by finding inner strengths that you have. And so that was really talking about a lot of the ways that she went through six different hospitalizations in her life. And every single one of those, she really kind of embraced it with a lot of fortitude, a lot of graciousness, almost, she was just very happy even during a lot of those very, very tough times when she had wires and tubes sticking out of her and so. So, you know, it’s about having your inner strengths. And this little baby a ringtone actually has this inner strength. So it’s being able to sing and dance because she’s a diva and and she comes across her family is in peril, they don’t have any food, she has to go through this journey to search for these bananas, but then it comes across this ferocious tiger who’s this king of the jungle and, and he’s guarding the bananas. And she’s sitting there in the tree wondering what she can do. She She’s thinking and thinking, but then all of a sudden, it strikes her, she should just do what she does best. And she starts singing and dancing. And lo and behold, this ferocious beast, and this tiger starts dancing. And then eventually, they’re both dancing together, by the end of it, and, and then sharing bananas, and he gives her a bunch of bananas to bring back to her community. And so. So those are some underlying themes as well, you know, doing something good for others, as she kind of brings the bananas back to community but also not judging a book by its cover. And so she wasn’t afraid to go challenge this, this, this tiger and even though you know, he was very scary. So there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of things to unpack there. But it’s really, it’s really a way that I want to share her her light and her love with all the children that do get to read it and parents and teachers and everyone else. Wow.


Ari: That’s great. All right, before we go, let me ask you this. Is there any any words of wisdom, any advice for my audience for you know, just words of wisdom in general, whether they’re going through something or not? Something you’ve learned that you can share with us?

Hans: Yeah, one of the things I’ve realized is that society, just in general, it doesn’t embrace embrace grief that well, if you look at even bereavement leave, it was it was just like five days that, you know, most corporations kind of give you. But even when, when, when I’m talking about this grieving journey, it’s a very lonely journey. And it’s a very unique journey, and that you’re trying to you’re traveling it yourself. And there’s an analogy that someone told me the other day was, was really, that drink through grief is kind of like sitting in this deep, dark well, so like well of water. And you have a lot of people kind of coming coming by. Some people say, you know, oh, man, that sucks, you’re sitting on the well, is if there’s anything I can do, just let me know, it’s very common common thing you hear. But then there’s other people that come by and looked at your look to see that you’re down in that well, they’re like, Hold on one second, I know it really, it’s really tough. I’m going to go back and I’m going to get a rope, I’m going to get a ladder, and I’m going to come down there and I’m going to sit with you in that deep dark well of despair that you’re in. And I think that really fully encapsulates, you know, empathy and just being being empathetic and really understanding how to actually, you know, really help that that brief person. And then that person says, you know, if, if and when you’re ready, we can both try to journey out of this. Well, and I think that’s, you know, one overarching message I’d like to share to your listeners is really, you know, if you know someone that is going through a grieving journey, it’s very difficult to know what to say or do As people are very different, but one universal thing, by talking to a lot of people is really, an experience of myself is really just showing up. Just just show up for that person, whether that’s sending them a text message, you know, once a month, or once every couple months, saying how you doing, or I’m thinking about, you know, your loved one, or, you know, I’m coming over to give you a hug, or whatever else it is, or would you like to have a conversation. Many times, they won’t respond many times, maybe they it doesn’t. It doesn’t affect them, but in terms of in terms of just knowing that you’re thinking of them is really important as as a brief person, because it’s hard for us to kind of reach out for help. If someone says, you know, let let me know what I can do, you know, that we’re not necessarily going to, to say, say anything, but I think we as a society can really do a lot better job of of really supporting those going through grief and really recognizing that it is almost this invisible wound that we’re living through. And so you know, this, this really, really tough handicap that we all have to kind of carry on our shoulders. So that is that is really the, the message I’ll share to all of your listeners is, you know, we’ve been through COVID pandemic, I know that most listeners know someone that’s going through a lot of pain, and just, you know, let them know that you’re there. Because it could just be, you know, listen to them or give them a hug. You never know how big that is important that is to, to that great, great person. And then finally, for all, for all parents out there, I know this is a very tough topic to talk about child loss, but in terms of my message to you just embrace every single moment that you have with your child and really cherish those precious days and time that you have with your loved ones. Because you certainly never know when your last time,


Ari: right, I hear certainly definitely words of wisdom. Again, I myself, basically adhere to that. That position of, you know, saying, you know, before you leave the house in the morning, you know, tell your kids that you love them, because it might be the last time that you actually see them, which is something that I personally I did not, it didn’t happen to me because I got out of 911 but 658 of my friends and co workers, they did leave in the morning and they never came back. And you know, so I tell people the same thing you know, let your wife and spat let your spouse, your wife, your kids, let them know that you love them every single day because it might be the last time God forbid that you have that opportunity. If people want to get ahold of you, Hans, what’s the best way of doing that? Email? Website? What’s the best way to find you?


Hans: Yeah, absolutely. And so it’s a Bemis daddy@gmail.com That is my email. So Avi, VA, s di d dy. That’s also my Twitter handle. So at Aviva steady, as well, as well as Instagram. And my website is is wo dot Hans kolbert.com. And that that is the best way you can get get in touch with me. But yeah, as I would say, you know, all of your listeners probably came on the show to listen to this show. Trying to get some something out of it. I think the most important thing is that we can actually do our, almost the simplest things that we can do, you know, tell, tell your loved ones that you love them and be there for someone that’s going through a tough time.

Ari: Right, Hans, thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. I’m sure you’ve touched the hearts of many of my peers and many of the people in my audience Good luck going forward. Keep up the good work. It’s so important the work that you’re doing, and it’s certainly going to benefit mankind in general. That’s my belief. Thanks again. You’ve been listening to whispers and bricks and I’m your host Iris Shaman. Remember if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud, like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time and your career your business or your life. If you know you’re not enjoying all the success satisfaction significance that you desire, then it’s time for you to book a call with me at call with ari.com Check out my whispers and bricks Coaching Academy. Until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.



86.  Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

84. Michele Risa Life Is A Rollercoaster


 Michele Risa Life Is A Rollercoaster


Michele Risa did not have to go to the hospital from the age of 16 to the age of 70. When she was diagnosed with cancer which she beat, she was diagnosed with cancer again at 71 that she beat again. Michele describes her journey from working in the corporate world to quitting her job and starting her own business Collaborative Solutions Inc, helping companies change their company culture to retain employees. She reminds us that life is a mixture of bricks and whispers, often simultaneously. Her story reminds us that even the bricks that can seem awful at first can be an opportunity.

Show notes:


Episode Transcription


Intro Plays



Ari: Welcome to whispers and bricks. My name is Barry Sherman. I’m your host. My guest today is Michelle Risa. She is CEO and founder of collaborative Solutions, Inc. Working with executive leaders during these demanding pandemic times to shift from one P meaning profit to four P’s meaning profit, people planet and purpose, creating sustainable evolutionary change. Due to the pandemic and the hemorrhaging of talent. We turn the great resignation into the great retention, decreasing the huge financial expense while increasing engagement and loyalty. A worldwide executive speaker Michelle has presented at the World Economic Forum, Viacom, Forbes Barclays, TEDx in Manhattan, including a six month program at the New York Stock Exchange. She is an award winning co author of conscious entrepreneurs a radical new approach to purpose, passion and profit, and a TV producer since 1998. Bringing positivity to an otherwise negative news environment. Michelle holds a Master’s from Columbia University and certifications as a conscious business change agent in breath walk and PTSD. Having kicked cancer amid the pandemic. Michelle Risa created three 360 Health to use science and your heart to transform illness into prevention. Navigate dark moments of life with ease and grace and create a stunning elegant life however you define it. Post COVID Michelle addresses our polarization and isolation with free workshops, healing conversations to shift from contention to connection and build more meaningful relationships. She is passionate about authenticity spreading the truth about the glory of aging as a two time marathon runner and creating belonging within the human family. Please help me welcome Michelle Risa.

Michele: Thank you. I don’t There’s nothing else I have to say now.


Ari: Oh, there is there is plenty. How are you? How are you doing?



Michele: I’m good. Thank you. Good. Thank you for sharing all of that. I wasn’t thinking you were going to,


Ari: uh, well, you know what I wanted to I wanted to cut it down, but I couldn’t find where to cut it. So I just used it. Well,

Michele: if we’re still here, nice to have everybody.


Ari: Okay, so now, let me start off with this. You know, I have a niece whose name is Michelle. And I have a cousin whose name is Risa. So I’m curious. What’s it like growing up with two first names and no last name?



Michele: Well, I’ll give you the real the real short answer to it. I was born Michelle, Risa gurtner. And after getting married, and changing, that was the tradition back then I wouldn’t have done it now. After changing my last name to his. Okay. I then said, As I looked at all the paperwork to change everything back. I just said, You know what, no matter how many times I get married, I’m just going to stay Michelle, Risa and forget adding, subtracting, multiplying. So that’s the simple answer. Wow,

Ari: that’s really interesting. First, first time I’ve ever heard that. That’s great. That’s really great. So, Michelle Risa, I’ll just call I’ll just call you, Michelle. Thank you. As you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks. Now the whispers of those voices telling us what is the right thing to do they represent the good in life. The bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life and let’s be real, all right. Everybody has a brick thrown at them at some point in time or another in this world, some more, some less. And, you know, it’s just that’s that’s the way life is. Now prior to this record, prior, excuse me, prior to this recording, you and I had a chance to talk and get to know each other a little bit. I learned that growing up life was pretty good for you from the age of 16. Until the age of 50. You never had to see a doctor man how many people are envious of that? You know most would consider you one lucky lady. Now during that time you were you were leaving a very, very busy life. Can you give us a little tell us a little bit more about that what was going on?


Michele: So again, from the timeline, tonsils, tonsil was taken out. I think tonsils taken out at 16 Yes, I’ve been extremely healthy. And yes, by 70 never had to see a doctor and didn’t get colds flu, just very strong and took a great deal of pride in that already enjoyed, you know really being able to run and have fun and have no physical limitations. And then let me just say before I answer your question, you know, boom, two diagnoses of cancer. So if I can just before I answer how that time was, whispers in bricks Ra, I just now know, life has always both for me, in fact, they come together, right? Where there’s if maybe another way of saying it is the light and dark are the things I want and the things I don’t want. And, you know, for me, it’s finally seeing life isn’t that? You know, simple, if you will, you know, the right and wrong, the black and white. And once I believe I and others can just trust or see or test that both are there? We’ll find both, we’ll find Yes, it may be a challenge. I appreciate that. Not diminishing that at all. And recognizing the gifts that may be there, but maybe not apparent. So I just want to punctuate your beautiful name, which offers that beautiful message whispers and bricks.



Ari: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. But why don’t you tell us I’d like to hear a little bit about, you know, what your life was like, prior to getting hit with that brick, so to speak. You’re a TV producer. I think we read. Tony, tell us about that. What was going on? You know, how many people how many people would be jealous of that? Wow, a TV produced right love to produce TV?

Michele: Everybody can. We’re more powerful than we really give ourselves credit for we just and I didn’t for most of my life. So yes, I went to it was Manhattan cable. So it wasn’t, you know, NBC for sure, you know, were CBS or one of the major networks. But it was it was an opportunity to get out there and get my message out there at that time. And I wasn’t, you know, social media wasn’t then what it is now, you know, as a means of of dialoguing with people and getting your message out. So I decided if that’s what I needed to do, because someone had invited me on to their show. And, and then I said, Oh, wow, that’s really, voila, when they did that, they said, You can be a producer as well. And so initially, it was a yoga show already. Because that back in the 90s. That was my focus. So if I go back a little bit before that, I was in the corporate world in Ogilvy and Mather, which was a major advertising agency. In May there. Okay, so Dave, I met David many times, he would come in from France. And when I joined when he separated mass media from direct response. And so we were his little baby on 42nd Street. And anyway, stayed in the corporate world, whether it be on the account side, or the client side, when I moved to Seattle, I lived there for a little while, but was that Seattle First National Bank? So banking, and finance kind of became an area that I was in. And that was, I guess, you when you say busy, I’ll just say, Yeah, I worked at Citibank from easily eight in the morning, till 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock at night. And that was what you had to do that then I’m maybe I think, at Goldman Sachs, that still is kind of sorta, but

Ari: that, I think, I think in the financial world, you know, investment banking is always going to be like that, you know, they run you ragged, and you know, and and then only the strong survive and they make a bazillion dollars, and then they get divorced, and they have all kinds of issues at home, and it’s the trade off just is it worth it, but I’m not even gonna go there.

Michele: So, then just punctuate I left saying, sensing, this is not my destiny. I was miserable. And we don’t need to

Ari: go here. I hear I hear. I’m just gonna stop. I’m just gonna stop me for a minute. Because it’s really funny. Because you talk about Ogilvy and Mather. When I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I wound up in a in an employment agency. And Ogilvy and Mather was one of my accounts. Ah, which is really that’s what that’s why I knew about them and what they did and everything else was fascinating. And from there, from that, after that, I wound up on Wall Street in the financial world. So it’s just funny how our two lives you know, Oh seem to have been parallel.



Michele: Yeah, yeah. So just so just to let people know, I want to help your audience side from new. I left Citibank with no plan. I literally just quit. I was going to, it’s a silly story won’t even bore your viewers with it, maybe you and I another time. But anyway, I quit with no, no plan. And I just trusted, I just trusted that the next step was going to be become a parent. And, of course, as you can imagine, you know, I financially was fine. So I didn’t, that wasn’t my worry. But nevertheless, you know, just leaving without a plan to courage and so I just want to punctuate at this time. For people that though it may also take courage to quit a comfortable position with good remuneration, that, I would say that’s the best thing I ever did. And not only did it lead me down the yogic inner path, which I can talk about more, if you like, but it also showed me airy that I had courage. You know, just to do that was not a common north north. Everybody said, What are you crazy? But I’m just saying, doing that leap enabled me to see for the rest of my life girl, you’ve got courage, you can do this.


Ari: You know? Absolutely. And I think it’s very poignant at this particular time. In our lives, you know, going through the pandemic, how many people had made decisions where they said, you know, what, life’s too short, I’m not going to do the, you know, the, the rat race anymore, I’m, you know, I’m going to quit, and I’m going to do something else do something that I really want to do. So I think it’s very, very, and you didn’t have that. I mean, you just, you know, you just, you know, a leap of faith, blind faith, okay, you weren’t being pushed. I mean, you weren’t happy what you were doing, but you weren’t really being pushed, as opposed to people during the pandemic, who are literally being pushed, where they could no longer go out and work because of the pandemic and the like. And many people did go out and did go out on their own and, you know, started a new career a new life. So you were, I guess, a pioneer in that respect, because you did it. Without the pandemic, you did it because you felt this is what the right thing to do for you was, and, and I think you were following your own whispers. I think that’s what it boiled down to.


Michele: Yeah. And again, let me just say please, everyone that’s listening. I appreciate it requires courage. I no doubt I’m not diminishing the challenge. However, more than ever, I’ll just say there’s our A There’s me, there are people who are happy to help you having gone through many similar things, starting a new and entrepreneurship is not for everyone, either. But there’s a lot of us out there who can help. So please don’t do it alone. You know, we were never meant to do at this journey alone.

Ari: Right. So I think, did we talk about are you married? Currently? No. I think you said you’re divorced. Correct. Okay. Do you have any children? I’ve got children. You have got children. Okay. That’s wonderful. They live in? They live near you at all or?

Michele: No, but you know, it’s okay. And all our other technology, we stay connected.

Ari: 100% That’s great. So, you know, world’s going around, you’re doing your thing. You’re happy and you turn 50 on top of the world, and then you get hit with that major brick the kids

Michele: need to make I need to make me older. I got hit with it when I was 70.

Ari: You can’t you could not have gotten hit with it when you were 70 Because you are not 70 now.



Michele: That’s correct. I’m 71

Ari: You know what? When I turned 71 I should look so good.

Michele: I wouldn’t even ever have guessed my 70th birthday present. I was doing chemo and radiation and so that I won’t be jealous when I was 71 I was just coming out of major surgery when when it was my 71st birthday. So yeah, I understand.

Ari: Oh, wow. That’s just like, that’s crazy. You know, reminds me It reminds me in a similar way but different. When my wife turns 49 She was sitting Shiva for her mother. So she said Mom, thanks for the birthday present.

Michele: And so we’re coming back to if we really again I want people to get value from what my share. I appreciate so deeply that it looks it could look ominous and terrible and negative and a death sentence when he quite frankly, say it like that. And it doesn’t have to be a physical cancer. Now it can be a divorce, it can be losing a job, right? It can be losing your home and a fire or a flood. You know, there’s many choices here. And so I’m putting cancer in quotes. So we all have it. And I just want to really underscore the message that if we can just hold, hold it in a way that as I said earlier, we I can do this if it was given to me. And I’m gonna say, who gave it me, I’m gonna say me, I created this challenge for me. And I’m some energy force, I call it soul. You can call it whatever works for you something that’s keeping my heart beating, I don’t pay attention to my heart, it kind of does it all by itself along with breathing. So if we can all agree something is breathing us, or pumping our heart, you know, I’ll just offer if we can just hold that trust for a little bit. I promise, I promise you, we’ll see more than what appears to be apparent. And I’ll just say how many people have said, Oh, when I lost that job, that was awful. And yet it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Absolutely. I would say that about my cancer. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Ari: Wow, that’s a powerful statement. But let me ask you something. Okay, I get I get where you’re coming from. But at any point in time, alright. Did you ever get to a point where you said to yourself, you know what, I can’t do this. I’m just, I’m just given up. I can’t deal with it. I can’t, you know, forget about my dreams. Forget about I’m just gonna, you know, and you reach a point so low, where you like, I’m never gonna get out of this. Do you ever did that ever happen to you? And if it did, okay, what did you do to to get out of it? You know, how did you overcome that?

Michele: Okay, so let me again, say I never, I don’t, in my experience, all right. It’s never all good. And all bad from in my life. It’s kind of like a roller coaster, you know? Absolutely. It’s not, you know, these separated realities. So, there are many moments where I’m up and okay, and then boom, I It’s like trying to go from crawling to walking. I’m almost there. Almost there. Balancing, balancing, boom, falling. Right. Okay, so I don’t want and I think that’s an important image to keep, you know, we keep thinking it’s one or the other. My favorite three letter word in the English language is and AMD right, it’s always both, it’s always the good and the bad. And they’re kind of coming in and out like that. So yes, I’ve hit rock bottom, and I’ll give you during the cancer when I when I really was in the it’s called the dark night of the soul. I don’t know, if you’ve ever heard that term, but it’s a it’s really a down the dark night of the Soul is really a downplays, and so I’m in the hospital, have beds coming out of my body, because, you know, everything’s kind of, I’m not doing very much and I’m kind of locked into the bed, and in a lot of pain, and my call button isn’t working, even though they’ve come to fix it, as they said they did. And so right, you know, you’re buzzing, buzzing, buzzing, and obviously, no one’s coming. And in that moment of pain and discomfort and feeling lost, I would say yes. You know, just really lost. I would, I would say that’s kind of answering your question about a dark place. I can’t take this. And the beauty. I’ll just tell you what occurred. So I did have a roommate to which I finally yelled out to her and said, Hi, you know, my call buttons not working? Can you please call someone to help me? You know, and someone ultimately came. And when the nurse showed up, I just Well, before she showed up area use breath, I was trying to talk to my soul. I was just hanging in there. And when she finally showed up, she said, Well, you know, how can I help you? And I just looked at her and said, I know you’re helping me physically. And that is, you know, your responsibility to help me physically get right now. I’m in the depths of a deep, painful emotional and mental place. And she said, Well, how can I help you? And I said, could you give me a hug? And we did. And we both cried. Wow. Wow,



Ari: I’m about to break down. Stop doing this.

Michele: So yes, we do reach bottoms.



Ari: Wow. But you but you overcame, I overcame You overcame. And then as they say that no good deed goes unpunished. You gotta hit with it again. Yes. What was what was going through your mind?



Ari: I’m going to be transparent. I just said, apparently, Michelle, there’s more for you to learn.

Michele:  I’m just going to be honest with you. And that’s my trust. All right. So I went a different route. Instead of chemo and radiation. We did surgery that time was just last October 1, by the way. Wow. Which it’s now February. So not that long. Three months ago. Yeah. Around four


Michele: months ago. Yeah. October, November, just around the corner. Yeah. I mean,

yeah. And I never stopped believing that I was going to rise above it and heal. And please, no, I’m not passive. You know, again, I, as I did the first year, had healers working with me. I took responsibility not only for my physical health, but my mental emotional and spiritual health, because that’s what my belief is. So instead of only killing what was the cancer, I was strengthening my immune system, my lymphatic system, you know, my nervous system, I mean, I as well as my, what am I emotional needs? Right? Yeah, what is my mental, so and my spiritual needs. So, I, I offer a holistic approach. I mean, get back to my company. You know, at the end of the day, this is what I offer. I don’t believe there’s a silver bullet, you know, chemo and radiation will do it. I’m not negating it creates a lot of miracles. But for me, instead of healing in six months, is they prognosticated I did it in six weeks.

Ari: Wow. So are you are you cancer free right now? Yeah. Congratulations. That’s so wonderful to hear. So So what are you doing now.

Michele: So what I’m doing now is, and part of what you read, is coming from the corporate world, it’s a wonderful opportunity to, there’s still, despite the changes and the demands, new employees are making on climate, on wages, on benefits on having a purpose. I mean, this is all that CEOs are talking about it and are aware of it adding more diversity to their board, to their staff, et cetera. Now, this has all been happening over these past few years. However, now more than ever, after 38 million have left in 2021. You know, we know there’s a shortage and employees are in a place to make demands. And I just see it as a wonderful time to truly change the culture, to finally help all of us recognize how to discover our human potential. And that’s the greatest asset we corporations of all of us really have. And no fault of their own, it’s easier to measure dollars than human potential. So I’m not saying this is easy. Like, again, don’t get me wrong, but we know relationships and connection, and, and creativity and, you know, your belonging and feeling heard and having a voice. And, you know, taking responsibility and having a sense of commitment. All of that is what excites us to get up and create. So that’s what we’re doing inside of company. So that’s a program I’m launching in the neck, I’ll probably launch that in the next three months.


Ari: Wow, it must be really exciting. You must be excited. Let me ask you this. Before we go a couple of more questions, like who is the one person that you would point to that you would say had the most influence in your life and why?

Michele: So the person was my, the master of Kundalini Yoga, his name was Yogi Bhajan. I met him in the 90s. It was shortly after I left city. I left there and I was on my search. And he, the first class I heard that this methodology can offer peace, you know, to stay calm amid the chaos. He didn’t quite say it that way. But he’s offered peace. And I was like, really worried really? And I then studied with him for as long as he was on the planet for the for the next 10 or 11 years. Wow. Yeah. And both here in the United States. And in India, of course, he was from outside of Delhi in Amritsar, which is where it he was a Sikh people with turbans. Golden Temple is in Amritsar. And so, yeah, that discipline Ra, that connection to my is energy, my my literal energy? My connection to my heart? My ability to listen there’s a mantra the word in Gurmukhi is Sonia. And Sonia means listen. And I remember just hearing this song, Sunita, Sunita, and I was really liking it and all. And then finally, it’s like, you know, what does that mean? Right? And then when I heard that word means listen, and I knew it was obviously listening to my own heart, right? So I can now listen to you. I can’t if I don’t listen to it. If I don’t know how to listen to me, I certainly don’t know how to listen to you. That’s another tip for all those listening. Starts with ourselves. So yes, this was a man truly impacted.

Ari: Oh, awesome. So before we go, I know you’ve said a lot. And you’ve you’ve certainly, you know, instilled inspiration into me, I can tell you that I’m sure my audience as well. But do you have any, like word parting words of wisdom for my audience?


Michele: parting words of wisdom? I mean, I. It, I feel like I’ve shared it, which is why I’m not that I don’t know. But I mean, for quality of life that I live and the quality and I try to offer to others at least do I offer a smorgasbord board, of course. But I’ll I’ll say it this way, you know, I’ve looked at what are my values, getting to know who I am? You know, what are my accomplishments? Right? And I can share some of that, what are my contributions? And what are my lessons learned? And I think if I could just leave people with to investigate those four areas about and what’s not working again, well, let’s go back to the end. So what’s really working and what’s not and be honest with yourself? And not I’ll actually give a quote that I love. And her name is Rhea Beck, I believe. And the quote is, knowledge is a love affair with answers. Wisdom is a love affair with questions.

Ari: Right? Wow. Wow. Can you repeat that? You repeat that? Sure.

Michele: So knowledge is a love affair with answers. Wisdom is a love affair with questions.


Ari: Those are powerful words. Very powerful words. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. Now, if people want to get in touch with you, you know, they want to schmooze. They want advice. They want help. What’s the best way for them to do that? You have like a website or an email, what’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Michele: And let me say we do healing conversations. I spoke about that what you said in the bio. It’s a way to learn how to speak from contentiousness to connection. We haven’t every month, so I’ll just say you can email me that’s a simple way or go to LinkedIn. Maybe I’ll give those two links. Sure. Okay. So the, the LinkedIn, I if you go to Michelle Reese, I don’t believe there’s more than one. But okay, so it is as everyone knows, it’s you know, ww.linkedin.com/you know, in i n slash and then Michelle, Risa mi CH, le ri sa right. So

Ari: wait before you go on. All right. Michelle is only one L. You should know that mi ch e l e. Okay. And resize ri S A, like so with an AR Reese Elisa with an AR Yes, Reese. Okay. Yes.

Michele: So that’s my LinkedIn. And he’s email me initial M. And my last name, r i s a 11. At Gmail, which is also very easy. M r i s a 11. At Gmail. So if if you contact me, I’d love to invite you to this free gathering where we all practice addressing very, sometimes challenging subjects. But I just tell you, when we support each other and do it together, we get better at it right? We become masters of being human. And communication is one of our human traits. So just an opportunity to come and practice.

86.  Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

83. Josh Olmos Where There’s A Will There’s A Way


  Josh Olmos Where There’s A Will There’s A Way


Josh Olmos runs a successful marketing business, has a podcast, helps homeless youth, is a loving husband and father of 4. But, life wasn’t always that way. Josh became homeless at the age of 14. He describes what happened and how he eventually found his parents. Josh also tells us about the bricks he faced as a young father and what helped him build the life he wanted. But, most of all, he shares the advice he received that helped him overcome any brick you don’t want to miss this!


Show notes:




Episode Transcription


Intro Plays


Ari: Welcome to Whispers and Bricks My name is Ari Schonbrun, I’m your host I have with me today, Josh. Almost. Josh is Josh is. Well, let’s put it this way. He was a homeless teen, and he went from homeless teen to thriving entrepreneur. Josh is passionate about helping others be intentional about the life they’re creating. He’s a marketing consultant and owner of day by day solutions, a marketing service business for local service businesses. He’s the founder of faith through love, a nonprofit that helps the homeless and families in need in the northern Nevada area. He is also the host of the Be intentional podcast, Josh loves connecting with others and spending time with his wife and four sons in Reno, Nevada. Please help me welcome Josh. Almost. Josh, how are you?

Josh: I’m doing well. Thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. It’s a pleasure.


Ari: I’m very, very excited to have you. How’s your day going? So far?

Josh: It’s going good. Been very productive morning.

Ari: That’s great. Now you’re in Nevada, correct?

Josh: I am. I’m in Reno, Nevada, in Reno, Nevada.



Ari: That’s wonderful. You like to gamble with the people in Nevada are the only ones that don’t gamble.


Josh: No, we go to the casinos for the food.

Ari: I hear you. I hear you. Okay, so before we begin, I have to ask you your first name, when when you introduce yourself to me was Joshua Joshua. But I quickly learned that’s not your real first name. What is what is the name that your parents gave you? Where you now I know why they call you Josh. Oh, sway. Hmm. That is what language Spanish, it’s Spanish. Does it mean anything?

Josh: So it’s actually just Joshua translated into Spanish. Oh, really? That’s why I That’s why Joshua gets the same name.


Ari: Ah, okay. I had no idea. All right, awesome. Great. Now, as you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks, the whispers of those voices telling us what the right thing to do is, and they represent the good things in life. And the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be honest, All right, everybody goes through stuff in their lives. Sometimes the brick is bigger, sometimes it’s smaller. Sometimes there are more of them, sometimes there are less of them. But at the end of the day, everybody goes through something. And the idea of this podcast is to try and help people that are going through things that they don’t, that they think they’re the only ones going through them, and I bring on guests that, you know, tell their stories, and people realize that, hey, I’m not the only one going through this. So there are several reasons why I shouldn’t be my guest on the show. After our initial conversation, I knew that there were people in my audience who are going through some of the same things that you had gone through, they’d been hit with brick after brick, much like what you had gone through. And they needed to hear and to know that they could get through the trials and tribulations, the same way that you did, they needed to know that there are whispers out there that could save them. Now in your life, you’ve had many bricks thrown at you to start with, as we learned, you became a homeless person at the ripe old age of 14. What was that all about?


Josh: Well, I mean, it’s one of those things where, you know, it’s really easy to think, you know, be sorry for ourselves because we’re kind of a victim of circumstance because at 14 You know, I didn’t have a lot of say and what was going on around me. So my parents were going through a really bad divorce and weren’t speaking to each other. So one thought I was with the other the other thought I was with the other one, they forgot that I was actually on a class trip came home and everybody was gone. And I had no idea where they went. They both moved out of our region. And and so it took me about eight months to track down my mother and then after that, my father,


Ari: so let me understand something you’re on a class trip. Right? You come home was was the house locked? Or did you have keys Did you able to get in what what was the story? If they

Josh: so again, locked it was locked in I kind of broke into my own house.


Ari: Okay to your own house. Awesome. You still had was there like, you know, gas and electric Did you still have you know, was there?

Josh: We I did. I did. There was gas and electric for a couple of days I left to go find them. We lived in a place in Southern California in Escondido, California called elfin forest. So it was about 30 minutes from town driving. So I went into town and that took me a whole day.

Ari: Okay, so you went into town? And did you? Did you? What did you do about school?

I went, well,

you’re, you’re all alone, right? Did you get a key by the way? To the

house? No, no, no.


So So what did you do? I mean, do you leave the front door open? I mean, I



Josh: left a window cracked, but but it was so far away from from town. I, I stayed there a night. And then came back about a week later, just to double check, but didn’t really stay there kind of figured out on my own. I did go to school. You know, I, I guess you can say I was a little bit proud. Because I didn’t want anyone to know that this had happened. It was kind of embarrassing. So I tried to live as normal and like life was going on. And not anyone not let anyone know that anything was happening as far as long as I could.


Ari: Wow. So like, how did you manage? What did you do? I mean, I’m assuming you didn’t have any money. I had to assume. Right. So what did you eat? Where did you go? I mean, close. Yeah. Think. Think about all the things that a person needs, you know, a child. You know, I look at my 17 year old, you know, and he’s 17. Alright, and he would probably not be able to make it on his own. He doesn’t so what did you do? How did you why did you get food from I mean, if you went to a public school, I’m assuming they served your lunch?

Josh: Yes, we did. I did have lunch and then there was a Carl’s Jr. That I knew that someone worked there and and I traded a little bit of labor, I knew a little bit of how to work with my hands. And, and so I worked a little bit on their car. And they, you know, would pay me in their discount in their employee discount for food, so they would give me some food. And I did that. I did that for a while actually that that first night was the hardest, but you know, if you really think it through, you can trade you can trade labor for a lot of things.

Ari: Tell me Tell me real quick about that first night actually, what did where did you sleep? Where did you What did you do?


Josh: So I went to a park that I knew and and it was hard to sleep I have to admit that first one that was a shell shock and I had been a little bit you know, sheltered as a kid so I didn’t really I didn’t really know what was going on. There was a lot of emotions a lot of like that pity party of like, what did I do so wrong that you know, my parents didn’t love me that they would forget about me all that type of stuff. And that lasted for for you know, variously this eight hours, because it was already dark by the time I kind of came through and and it was really cold. I was in shorts and a T shirt. And I realized, man I need to get it together. I can very very realistically die out here. And so it was cold on the benches because they were there you know metal metal. Yeah, really cold. So I went and found kind of like a jungle gym back then they used to have the old wooden jungle gyms and right underneath them there were like wood chips. Now. I know they’re all phone, but back then there were wood chips. And I didn’t have anything. But it was cold. So I knew that if I if I kind of dug underneath the jungle gym, then the wind would go over me if I went slow enough. So So yeah, just with my bare hands a lot of splinters on my hands. A lot of kids are woodchips and so you dig through that and you kind of get to the plastic and under that. And, and yeah, I dug a hole and slept in there as much as I could. Because obviously every every noise kind of was startling, but slept as much as I could and tried to figure out what in the world to do. It was a weekend so I had a couple of days to figure out how the heck to get you know, to school and all that fun stuff.

Ari: You know, it’s it. It brings me It brings back memories of I mean, I remember you know, I’ve spoken to Holocaust survivors who talked to me about you know, running away into the forest and literally doing the same thing you did digging holes and literally digging their own graves, you know, to sleep in order to you know, to keep themselves sheltered and the like and I mean, I can’t imagine what that first night must have been like digging literally thinking to yourself, I’m digging my own grave. You know, I hope I wake up in the morning, that type of thing that’s let me ask you something when we When you were a kid before all this was going on, I mean, you must have had like hopes and dreams like any little kid. Do you remember? Do you remember what they were? If any of them? What What were your hopes and dreams, dreams? And when you were a kid?

Josh: Oh, yeah. When I mean, when I was a kid, I wanted to become a police officer, I wanted to become a cop, because it was, you know, I worked a lot of watched a lot of action movies. And when I was a kid at Bruce Lee was really popular. So you know, that that was kind of the thing. And I came from really humble beginnings, not just that, but before to my dad, first generation, my dad came from Vedat cruise, and became a citizen and opened up a shop, but we, you know, we were not wealthy by any means and, and on the poor scale. So, you know, being able to buy a house and being able to go to college like that was, those were like, big accomplishments for my family at the time, so that I wanted to become a cop. And to me that was like successful, you know, career and buy a house one day and go to college. That was those were my dreams.

Ari: Wow. Wow. So I it’s interesting. You mentioned your your parents came from where your father came from, where he come from? Veracruz, Mexico, he came from Mexico. And but I mean, I’m assuming that he came in legally and he went through all the process. Yeah, went through the process. You know, you must be very, you have to be proud of your dad for that situation. I know what was going on what’s going on today? You know, I don’t want to get political right now. But really, you know, what’s going on with the, at the borders, and like, it’s just a terrible situation. So it’s always nice to hear, you know, about people that have done it legally, and have really made made something of themselves in this country, because let’s be real America is the land of the free and, you know, it’s the land of opportunity, if you just, you know, take the bull by the horns, and I think you, you represent that as well. Because, you know, obviously, you’re doing okay, now, right? You were literally as as your bio said, you went from a homeless to an entrepreneur. And that’s great. Let me ask you this. Was there ever a point in time in your life when you just sank so low? That you said, You know what, I can’t do this anymore. It’s too hard. I’m just gonna give up on my dreams? And, and if that’s the case, how did you overcome? And when did you overcome? When what When did you get out of it?

Josh: Oh, very much. So, just backtracking a little bit? Before I answer that question that, you know, my dad was the one who really instilled the American dream in us and, and to keep fighting and to keep going. I mean, he was so so proud to come to come over and become a citizen, this was the land of opportunity. And I feel like sometimes people who immigrated here, or, like me, who have parents who did it, you know, we really hold on to that American dream, we really hold on to that, you know, the, the, what, what a blessing it is to be an American. And so, you know, I know a lot of there’s a lot of stuff going on, and definitely not getting political and stuff, but but we were really proud. I mean, I know we’re a Mexican family, we stuck to our culture, but we were really, really proud to begin Americans and, and it is a blessing, because I don’t know that things would turn out the way that they did. And I would have had the opportunity that I had, if if my dad would have stayed over there. And this would have happened over there. And so definitely agree with that, that we are, you know, America is a great place to live and grow up in. And so I, you know, me being young, I kind of had to figure things out on my own. And I did a lot of things, some things that worked really well some things that worked that didn’t go really well, to be honest with you, the part that was really, really hard for me, was I had, I had my boys I had two boys, when I was young, when I was really young when I was you know, 18 and 20. And, and, you know, becoming a parent is a whole different ballgame. And we had just got, you know, my wife and I, we had just gotten married, we had just moved into an apartment. And I was working three jobs, you know, I had gone from had burned all the money from from selling the first business that I started just a brick and mortar business, gone through all that to get the apartment to get the car to kind of get us up and going and I thought I would just roll into the next you know, the next business venture. And that didn’t work out and then now I had three mouths to feed and, uh, you know, mortgage and a car payment and, and, you know, before it was just looking out for myself now I had other people. So literally working three jobs. It was really hard. And there definitely became a point where I was like, I can’t do this. It’s too much. It’s too much pressure. Things aren’t going the way I thought they were gonna go. I have no idea what I’m doing. Because that realization kicked in, you know, you’re, you’re a parent, you’re working, you’re doing all this stuff and there’s that you know Work life balance, right? It’s like, I’m not there for the kids, but the kids need to eat, I need to go to work. And it was like, I’m not being a good parent. So all these things right, run through your head.

Ari: Did you wind up with? Were you one of those that like you had too much month at the end of your money?


Josh: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And, and also, I mean, I grew up on the streets. So, you know, later, what I found out was a little bit of PTSD, I, I overreacted to a lot of things, because, to me, everything was life and death. Because I grew up. If we didn’t find something to eat today, if I didn’t do this, if I didn’t do that, it really affected my day to day. And so trying to adapt from me, controlling everything, and really having that, you know, fighting for every single step that I took to going into, you know, into society. And it’s a totally different things. I had no idea, no idea about politics in the workplace, or how the hierarchy worked, or any of that type of stuff. And so that stuff was really hard. There was a lot of stuff I was learning at once. A lot of things I didn’t understand. And and it was really easy to get depressed during those times.

Ari: Do you think so? was? Was your wife supportive of you? I mean, I’m assuming Yes. I mean, she married you and you had kids together? I’m assuming she was she was supportive of you. Was she? Did she work at all? Or? Or, you know, was she just taking care of the kids and so that you can go out and do what you needed to do.


Josh: So for the most part, she stayed at home. But yeah, she was definitely supportive, but it was the same thing. She was handling two kids, and, and we were on her own. And, you know, there’s a whole story with that, too. But you know, everyone and I get it, everyone thought that we shouldn’t have had kids or been together. So we were on our own. And so that was hard to you know, she she came from a little bit of a higher class with your family and stuff. And then she was on her own trying to figure it out with me who had no idea what it was doing with two little kids. And so it was definitely a shock for all of our systems. Right.


Ari: That kind of that kind of bring begs the question. When you got married, I mean, you just mentioned that she was from a little bit better. You know, little wealthier homeowner was called wealthy but a little wealthier home than you certainly. What was their parents? What were their thoughts? I mean, did they condone the marriage? Did they were they against it? Were they you know, did they cut her off? Or did they say no, we’ll help you what? What was going on there?

Josh: Yeah, they definitely didn’t condone it. And yeah, it definitely wasn’t cut off thing didn’t attend the wedding or any of that type of stuff. So we were we were definitely on our own.


Ari: Wow. Wow. That’s amazing. So you had two kids? So but at some point in time, you you obviously had turned this around? Tell me about that. What did you do? Like, what are you doing now? I mean, you know, how did you how did you manage?


Josh: You know, I think the biggest thing was realizing that I was in control of my time. You know, my dad used to tell me something where there’s a will there’s a way. And



Ari: my dad used to say to me, my dad, you sent me when there’s a will there are relatives? That’s true, too. And yeah, when there’s a will there’s a way,


Josh: there’s a way, so. So really, it was it was where we intentionally came from, was the fact of if I didn’t want to do this for the rest of my life, because it was going to break me to do to run this heart. What was I going to do today to set up my future. And so taking a step back, taking those hits that came with it, and being purposeful about each step I took that, you know, and then knowing that if I worked hard enough, I could accomplish it. That’s really what changed everything. Because before everything was reactionary, it was just like this is do this has to happen. And so I was just reacting to everything that came my way. When I stopped and actually kind of, you know, planned out where I wanted to go what I wanted to do and was intentional with each step that changed everything.

Ari: Wow. It’s amazing. So I think you also mentioned to me something about a ministry.

Josh: Yeah, I was I was an executive director for for a ministry, a traveling ministry that helped inner city kids. And I did that for 10 years that I started from the very bottom as volunteering because I wanted to make a difference. I started from volunteering, got hired on to handle you know, some of the books and some of the outreaches and then moved up to director and then moved up to Executive Director and Director of Operations and all that on stuff. So that taught me a lot. And that actually is, is where I realized I wanted to go into marketing because I realized how many people are doing amazing things, but they’re the best kept secret, nobody knows about them because they don’t, they’re so busy mastering their craft and doing so well at doing what they do for people that they don’t have time to go out and actually tell people what they do and get more clients and so that that’s actually what what propelled me into marketing.


Ari: That’s, that’s, that’s awesome. I mean, it’s, you know, it must have been very, very satisfying for you, in that environment, knowing that, you know, knowing the environment that you came from, and saying to yourself, you know, what, I know, I know what happened to me, but I’m not going to let it if it’s, you know, if it’s up to me, I’m not going to let it to happen to anybody else, you know, I’m going to do whatever it takes in order to make sure that, you know, people have a decent upbringing, a decent life, etc. So, you know, my hat’s off to you, you know, doing that kind of thing, especially for 10 years, that’s a long time. You know, that’s a long time in that kind of a situation. So my hat’s off to you, you should be really, really proud of yourself.

Josh: Thank you. Thank you appreciate that. And, you know, so I did go into the the Ministry for 10 years. And that was amazing. But also, I mean, you know, sitting down with my wife, and going over what we wanted to do, she was she was in the Air Force, she was in the military for six of those years. And wow, that, you know, her, you know, going off for a little bit. You know, he has an eight month bootcamp. So it’s just me and my boys and doing that stuff. So as being on the same page, and, and really going, Okay, we want to be intentional, we don’t want this lifestyle, we need it, we moved out of out of our hometown, because we wanted to start over. And it was really hard to get away from old habits if you’re surrounded by the same things over and over again. And that was hard. And so doing it together that that was a big deal. So you know, credit to where credit’s due to her being in the Air Force, really, you know, help, especially with the education, especially with insurance and stuff like that. So it was it was a big deal.


Ari:Wow. Wow, that is that’s amazing. And so you were talking about early on? Yeah, two kids. I understand. Now you have four children. Now I have four. Yes, sir. Correct. And how is that working out? Great.


Josh: I mean, it’s wonderful. My My oldest is just graduated high school, and, you know, 18, and then my youngest is six months. So

six months. Wow. Wow, that’s a spread at much. So yes, sir. Yeah. How much you how old? You are the kids. So you have 18? Yeah, s

I have 1816. And then six years old, and then Finland’s


Ari: and then six months. Okay, so you got that 10 year gap between numbers two and three? Yes. All right. That’s not bad. I have eight and a half year gap between four and five. By me, but that’s not the whole story. And this is about you not about me. So we’re not going to go there. Anyway, that’s amazing. Do you have siblings?


Josh: I do. My sister who is the oldest 10 years older than me. She has cerebral palsy.



Ari: So who’s taking care of her? My mom.

Josh: My mom is taking care of her. Yeah. So okay, great. Yeah, yeah. And then you have a guy that I have a brother. He’s six years older than me. And he’s in Orange County right now. And he runs a car detailing business. So

Ari: car detailing. Yeah, I could be a customer if I was in California, but I’m in New York, but trust me, my car needs detail. Wow, that’s great. That’s, that’s really great. So it really sounds like you haven’t put together you figured it out. I might again, my hat’s off to you. I just, you know, I think if it were me, I would be dead by now. So, but really my hat’s off to you. So before we go. Is there anything that you would share with my audience words of wisdom words of advice you can give to my audience? Yeah,

Josh: I mean, I would definitely just harken back to two things. One is apparently what my dad said was true, where there’s a will there’s a way you know, you have to be willing to sacrifice something because everything comes at a cost. And so sacrifice something is for what you really want. And then two is be intentional about what you’re doing this life has a really, really easy way of getting you caught up and just reacting and just living day by day and everyday passes by so fast. So if you don’t stop and make intentional steps, you’ll end up somewhere where you didn’t want to be


Ari: great. Definitely words of wisdom. One more question. If you had to point to an individual that had a you know, huge influence on your life, who would that be?

Josh: But it was my Dad, my dad definitely had the biggest influence not only by example of, you know, him coming over, but also when I found him and you know, and told him what happened, he broke down and he apologized and, and it actually got him and my mom talking, they didn’t get back together or anything, but start talking and start doing that. Because the way he responded to everything was amazing. You know, he was my best friend before he passed away in 2010. But we had such a great relationship, and he was my best friend. And he really showed me from, you know, from the very beginning to the end, you know, how a man should be and what what we can do when we get over ourselves and try to do what’s best.

Ari: Wow, you know, you’re, to a degree, you’re doing God’s work. That’s what I feel. If people want to get a hold of you, what’s the best way for them to do that email, you have a website, you know, if they want to, if they want to talk to you, because they need help, or they just want to schmooze, or they just, you know, want to say hello, and my hat’s off to you, you know, how would they do that?


Josh: So all of the above, I have a website, Josh, called most Sr, because my son is also Joshua levels. So JOSHOLMOS s r.com. There’s a chat there that you can just click on it. And you know, it goes straight to my email. So I’ll contact you within 24 hours, you can email me directly, Joshua, hello at Joshua Alan watts.com. Or you can find me on Instagram and DM me if that’s easier for you, Josh, almost Sr. I love to connect, I would love to chat. And I’m always here to help.


Ari: That’s so great. So my yada if you’re there my audience that I want to talk to, if you know if Josh’s life resonates with you, and it’s you know, and you might be something you might be going through some of the things that he went through. He’s the type of guy who will be more than happy to talk to you talk you through it, give you some words of advice, give you some inspiration. He’s just that type of guy. He is the type of person that I think we need more of in this world. You know, we’re in a in a in a world that is a little bit, you know, topsy turvy upside down a little scary. But with people like Josh almost in the world. We’re going to get through this and we’re going to we’re going to do great, Josh, thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. I’m sure that you’ve touched the hearts and lives of many people, my audience, good luck, go. Good luck going forward. Send my best to your wife and of course to your children, and keep doing what you’re doing. Thanks so much. You been listening to his prison bricks and I’m your host Gary Shermer. Remember, if you feel like you’re stuck in the mud, like you’re spinning your wheels, wasting time, your career, your business your life. If you know you’re not enjoying all the success, satisfaction significance that you desire, then it’s time for you to book a call with me at call with ari.com Check out my whispers in bricks Academy coaching and until next time, listen to the whispers avoid the bricks and never ever give up on your dreams. Bye for now.

86.  Deanna Kuempel Embrace The Struggle

82. Lily Walford Find Love That Lasts

  Lily Walford Find Love That Lasts




Lily Walford was a successful accountant for fortune 500 companies but found herself in the wrong relationships. She went from dating a narcissistic psychopath to someone who was emotionally unavailable. Lily took this brick, listened to the whispers, and tried to figure out what was happening. First, she wanted to find out why she attracted the wrong men. She learned a lot has to do with your mindset and also being able to profile behavior to know when you’re dealing with a dangerous personality. Then, she used this knowledge and experience to help people find lasting, loving relationships.

Show notes:




Love with Intelligence Youtube Channel

Episode Transcription

Intro Plays

Ari: Welcome to Whisper and Bricks. My name is Ari Schonbrun. I’m your host. My guest today is Lily Walford, Willie Walford, Lily Walford, is an accountant turned international dating and relationship coach, after going through a couple of relationships with psychopathic narcissists, as she says, as she tried to figure out what attracted her to those types of people that led her on this mission to help 1000s of people to experience real, genuine and honest love that lasts. She worked with singles and couples to improve their love lives, so they enjoy lasting undeniable love. Lily has worked with industry leaders within behavioral psychology and body language, which has supported her to create powerful results with our clients, such as people meeting their partner within 21 days through Lily’s exclusive compatibility matrix matrix approach, and she’s supported couples to reclaim the passion and chemistry within their current relationships. Her work has also been mentioned in national and international press, and she regularly contributes to various publications, such as cosmopolitan and Marie Claire, please help me welcome Lily Walford, Lily, how are you today?

Lily: Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on today. I’m super excited to dive into all these crazy topics.

Ari: That’s great. I’m excited to have you on the show. You know, we’ve had some conversations earlier on you and I. And I was just fascinated. And I think my audience is going to be fast. And I think they I think that really, really going to enjoy this show. So as you know, the name of this podcast is whispers and bricks, the whispers of those voices telling you what the right thing to do is and they represent the good in life. And the bricks represent the bad things that we go through in life. And let’s be real, everybody gets hit with a brick at some point in time, either life or another. Some more bricks, some less bricks, some big brick, some little bricks, but nobody goes through life on a high from beginning to end. It just doesn’t happen. So for you, life seemed pretty good. You’re an accountant, you work for a fortune 500 company, right things to go tell us a little bit about that part of your life. To start off, tell us what you know, how you got there, what you were doing?

Lily: Yeah, so originally, when I came out of secondary school, I went straight into the family business, we had these really cute little, you know, retail shops, one was an old fashioned sweet shop, another one was, okay, a jewelry shop. And it really got me fascinated about business. I thought, Okay, I want to go into accountancy. And my slowly sort of built up and went into went into more corporate and worked ended up in Fortune 500 companies. And before I entered my, you know, created my business now, I was, you know, working for Fortune 500 company, I was in a relationship that I thought was absolutely fantastic. You know, lived in a beautiful four bedroom home in a beautiful area of the city to brand new Mercedes on the drive. And I think I was only about 2024 25 at the time. So I thought, okay, brilliant, life’s all mapped out. And all of a sudden, you know, we ended that relationship. We went from going on to talking about holidays, and where we’re going to go next to a couple of hours later, it was like got this text saying we need to talk. And I was like, great. Okay, so within a weekend, I suddenly you know, lost, you know, my relationship had to move house kept Mercedes that’s always good. And had to sort of almost rebuild my life and it got me really questioning, okay, what’s important to me? You know, why am I ending up in the wrong kind of relationships and it really got me wondering, okay, what is a healthy relationship because even prior to that ended up in like you’re saying, the psychopathic narcissistic relationship, and even in that relationship, I stopped for five years after that relationship. Oh, my God. So vain.

So basically things were going well until you started to date a guy who turned out to be as you put it, a psychopathic narcissist. All right, I guess that’s when the brick started to hit. As you kind of mentioned, you know, you mentioned the losing the house losing whatever it was, tell us what was going on at that point. Um, you know, yeah. He said you have to talk. And and what happened?

Yeah, so that relationship wasn’t with the psychopathic narcissist, or psychopathic narcissist was a little bit before that one. But it was the relation that relationship again, it just wasn’t it wasn’t right wasn’t. So basically we’re both very self unaware, both emotionally unavailable. Because anyone who goes through like a narcissistic relationship or relationship you’ve been controlled, you tend to struggle to trust yourself and struggle to trust other people. So you tend to hold people at arm’s length. So basically, we’re to damage people that really couldn’t, you know, we couldn’t keep that relationship going anymore. And when that relationship ended, it kind of got me thinking, Okay, what’s going on within me? Why am I attracting these kinds of relationships, whether they’re narcissistic, whether they’re emotionally unavailable, whether they’re just not right for me, and within that years, when that relationship ended within 12 months, I became an NLP practitioner and Master Practitioner, a life coach and hypnotherapist I did a bit of public speaking. And I created a business whilst working full time in a whole new job in a different city. You know, a lot of changed in that time. But it did make me realize that self development, you know, self confidence, self worth is great, but it’s still not quite enough when it comes to relationships.

Ari: So, so let me get this straight. You know, after after, it seems like you’ve got hit with a couple of bricks, you know, depending upon how many guys we talk about. But at this point F, you know, right before you changed your whole life, I think as you said, as we discussed, you actually hit rock bottom. All right, now, let me ask you this, when you hit that rock bottom, did you say to yourself, was there any point in time you said to yourself, you know what, I quit. I’ve given up myself, I’ve given up on my dreams, you know, I’m not doing this anymore. I’m gonna curl up into a little ball and die. Okay. And if that was the case, how did you turn it around?

Lily: It was quite interesting, actually. So I think during that time, so when that relationship broke down, you know, few, a few days before my dog had just recovered from an from an operation. So I was like, sleeping on the sofa for two weeks waiting for my dog to recover. You know, getting told off at work for having it having time off around. So I was like, emotionally exhausted, and then the relationship ended. So and then realizing, okay, I’ve got to somehow, you know, pack up the house, move and arrange all these different things. And it was almost like, running off adrenaline. I think that’s the only way I can kind of put it it was very much like, just need them to get these things done. There was a moment when I was packing up the kitchen, I was alone in the house. And it just kind of really hit me It suddenly really made me realize wow, I’m leaving this life that I genuinely thought I loved and it’s like okay, I’m kind of taking parts of me and parts of these memories and parts of these lives and and trying to organize it into my new life. And yeah, I completely broke down I never known pain like it was like just literally felt it ripping through me thinking okay, I’m just being completely removed from this life. haven’t got a clue what’s going to happen next haven’t got a clue how I’m going to you know, move forward. But there was something in me that just snapped and it said right okay, I thought this life was good. I thought that this was right for me. It’s obviously not but I’m committing to myself to make sure whatever I go into next is going to be better. And it was Yeah, it kind of it kind of allowed me then to create that driving force of not settling.

Ari: Okay, so you made you basically made a decision. Alright, stuck with your decision to get out of the climb out of the the bottom of the barrel basically. Were your parents involved at all? Did you did you have conversations with them? Were they helpful? You know what was going on with that?

Lily: Yeah, thank goodness. They were super super helpful. So they were about about 6060 miles away so it wasn’t too bad but an hour and a half away drive. And I had my sister running up picking up the dog going back and helping me pick up you know, items of furniture, clothes, you know line by line. Sorry, get my words out a lot. I’m going to make a really easy transition sort of moving back close to family because I moved back in with my parents for a term whilst also looking for a job. And whilst also driving, you know, was it meant to just over two hour round trip going back to my job, which was in that city? Because I had a two month notice periods as well during that time. So it was, it was crazy.

Ari: Okay, so you pick yourself up by your bootstraps, as they say, and you decided that you were going to start a new business?

My right. Almost.

Okay, so tell me talk to me.

Lily: Yeah, so um, you know, whilst I was going through all the craziness, this is when I actually started to realize I actually can’t do all this on my own. And that’s when I’ve actually made the decision that I’d actually reached out to a life coach. Because I always thought that, you know, being able to reach out to someone like a life coach never done it before. It scared me to death because I thought I need for the week, people, I had this big belief system around that. And I was amazed whilst going through all this transformation whilst going through this crazy journey. You know, having the ability to understand myself and actually learning actually, to have that kindness towards myself and realizing how amazing this was. I actually wanted to go into it. So this is when I actually started to go, Okay, well, you know, what’s life coaching? How do I get into it? And it was really strange, because all of a sudden, my mom’s best friend, I found out her partner was in something called NLP. And, you know, they’ve been together for ages. I don’t know why I hadn’t met him, you know, for I think it was they were together over sort of five or six years by that point. And for whatever reason, hadn’t met him until the moment I decided to sort of go into NLP. And we had this conversation about what it was and how it works with the subconscious mind. And within 10 minutes, as well, you know, during that conversation, we actually had a chat about addictions and chocolate, really, really random. And chocolate was one of these things I absolutely loved. And within 10 minutes, I couldn’t touch it. And I couldn’t touch chocolate for about 18 months after that point, which is just crazy. And it made me realize actually how powerful NLP is, and how powerful the mind is when it comes to actually creating these changes. So when that happened, that was it. I was told I needed to understand everything about NLP, I wanted to understand everything about the mind. And I also wanted to help people overcome, you know, various different issues within their lives, which then later on developed into, you know, understanding relationships, improving relationships, and going down that line of business. Well,

Ari: I’m a novice. Okay. And I’m a I, you know, I don’t know that can you? Can you start by telling me, what is NLP? What does that stand for?

Lily: Yeah, so it’s neuro linguistic programming.

Ari: And what is that? What is that,

Lily: you know, if you go online, you will see so many different interpretations of it. But mine would be it’s the way that we communicate on a subconscious basis. Because a lot of people tend to focus on trying to just force them mind to think a certain way. But when you actually start working with the subconscious, you can end up having lasting changes. So it’s a little bit like the subconscious, the part of the mind that allows us to automatically drive and not realize we’ve taken a turning and we end up at a final destination. versus, you know, the conscious mind were like, Okay, we’re gonna go on a diet start Monday, and all we can think about is the chocolate cake.

Ari: I hear that right. Story of my life. Right. So but you had some help. As you know, as we discussed before the show you met or gotten got in touch with a gentleman that was going to work with you. Chase, I think was his name, correct?

Lily: Yeah. So that was 12 months into my journey. So when I went through all the NLP and all those different things, I thought it was fantastic but realized it wasn’t quite enough when it came to, you know, relationships and really understanding who’s compatible, who’s safe and all those different things. And at that point, I was dating, and I ended up meeting another stalker Long story short, from just my profile picture, and just from a couple of messages, he had managed to find out where I lived, and send a big bunch of flowers. And you know, alarm bells were ringing, my mum bless her who’s lovely she was she was going okay when you’re going to meet the guy, because that tends to be the first thing that we think to do. As soon as we receive something we want to be able to give back in some sort of way. That’s a whole other whole other realm direction, that conversation of how influence works. So I knew that this person was a stalker, I knew it was a dangerous personality type, and this person knew where I lived. And that’s when I reached out to one of my friends who I knew that was working with Chase. And you know, sent the messages sent the pitch the profile over, and within a few minutes, Chase actually allowed me to understand the ways to actually disengage with this dangerous personality type without being rude without being confrontational. And all of a sudden, this person didn’t want to assume anymore. And I knew from that moment, I wanted to, to understand more about behavior and behavioral profiling, and how that I can actually use that to allow people to stay safe. So chase a little bit of background on him. He is a world leader in behavioral profiling, he has trained over two and a half 1000 military operatives, to a Jason Bourne James Bond kind of level, with $30 million worth of government backed research. So he knows his stuff, you know, you can profile peoples in six minutes or less and read body language better than a polygraph machine. So it’s just insane. And when I, when I’ve sort of started to understand more about chases work, that was it, I went on a course I learned more about him, and we partnered up in business to be able to give this to, you know, to start off with singles who wants to go ahead and meet the one and uncute so fast dating because was it two people in you know, two women in the UK every week, get killed by their partners or ex partners? Bear in mind, the UK is quite small. And you know, one in three women and one in four men, you know, in the US go through physically abusive relationships. And it shows that it’s a huge problem. Yeah,

sounds like it sounds like you, wow.

So through this, we’re able to profile people and say, okay, this person is safe to be with, this person is actually compatible with you. And all of my clients I’ve worked with using this information of all entered into long term relationships, some as little sorry, some have entered those relationships in as little as 21 days as well. That is

absolutely amazing. It’s just, it’s crazy. It’s really absolutely amazing. So let me ask you this, and I think I know the answer, but I’ll ask anyway, who is the one person you would point to, that you would say had the most influence in your life?

Believe it or not, I think I might surprise you. But it would be my partner, when we actually meant we actually entered a relationship shortly after I did want to chase his courses. And over that, over the span of our relationship, and so far, we have learned so much about each other what creates a healthy relationship. He’s also a behavioral profiler, as well. And, you know, together you know, we’ve learned so much that there’s that’s helped us to help so many other couples and singles, worldwide, so we, I would say him.

Wow. Okay, so now, what are you doing now? I think you’ve got you mentioned to me that you’ve got some exciting news, you want to tell you want to share it with us, please.

Yeah, so we’ve just launched our radio station, which is just been absolutely incredible. So we’re now reaching, I believe it’s 1.5 million listeners every week.

Wow. That is great. And I assume that along this this program is all about relationships and making the right choices etc Am I correct?

is all about you know, love relationships, dating how to improve relationships. And we’re also launching a book this year as well. So we’re looking to launch in June

oh, what kind of book What’s the book about

so this is predominantly for professionals who are looking at to meet the right partner.

Ari: Wow, that’s awesome. You know, I It’s I’m so I’m so glad that you agreed to come on the show I think was very, very important. Let me ask you this. If people want to get in touch with you, what will be the best way for them to do that you have a website. I know you haven’t, you can have a radio show. But you have a website, you have an email address. What What have you got? How can people get a hold of you?

Yeah, of course. So, our website is love with intelligence.com. And you can also contact us through email and that’s info at love with intelligence.com.

Wow, well, it looks like you’re really really doing a lot. It looks like you’re you’re you’re helping a lot of people. I’m sure you’ve helped. I’m sure you you have helped and will be helping a lot of people in my audience. It’s absolutely amazing. Right. And, and, and one so young, I mean, you’re you’re what? How old are you?


Lily: I’m 2929

Ari: Oh my god, you can be my daughter. Wow. Okay, great. Well, Lily, thanks so much for sharing your story with my audience. Good luck going forward. Keep doing what